3DSciFi

To get this thread back up and running. I got some news for you lucky lot living in the States.

The Deep Space Nice Documentary "What We Left Behind" is only available in Cinema Today 05/13/19.
As for the rest of living outside of the States, still no news on when we will be able to see it.
But what I heard from people that have already seen it, it very good and one of the best Trek Documentary's made so far.


Here is a interview with Nana Visitor, Armin Shimerman, Andrew Robinson and Ira Steven Behr about the in Documentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoKAumPUfDw&list=WL&index=39&t=1600s

So it goes from good news to bad.
Patrick Stewart has just announced that the up coming Picard Series will not be on Netflix but Amazon Prime.
The link below is to the announcement on the official Star Trek Twitter account.

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1127921503209525248


It has not been a secret that Netflix has not been happy with CBS and the direction they are taking Star Trek in.
Netflix paid CBS and unknown sum of money for all past Star Trek shows and the exculive rights to show Star Trek Discovery and future shows internationally, this pritty much paid for season 1 of STD and weather the show did well or not CBS would not lose out.
However due the fan reception of STD and what was produced, Netflix was not happy as they wanted Star Trek and got something far from it. Shortly after Season 1 had finished airing Netflix slamed on the breaks and infomed CBS that they will not be paying anthing more toward STD and demanded the show be brought back inline with the rest of the Trek shows. This meant CBS now had to foot the budget of season 2 on their own.
Given what we got for season 2, needless to say the fan base and Netflix where extermel unhappy as CBS attemtp to fix the show just made it worse.

Netflix and other dirtabutor along with CBS Mechanide Partners where brought in to CBS to look at what was planned for the Picard Serise. (Story outlines, look of the show, costumes etc) None of them where happy what where planned and outright refused to pick up the licences to show and make products for it. Unless the show goes back to looking and being more inline with TNG, DS9 and Voyager and not a contiunation of the look of STD and the JJ films.
With only a few months before production was to begin. CBS told Alex Kurtzman to make the changes, it was leaked he was not happy with being forces to change everything. Alot of the new changer where rejected again and Kurtzman was told to go back and redo everything. With all this going on the Picard Serise missed it start date and any leaked news/rumours dried up until this announcement.

So with this announcment what does it mean? Well it looks like Netflix is still unhappy with the Picard Serises and had pulled out, this is also most likely the case with Mechanide Partners.
Given the timeframe CBS gave Kurtzman to make these major changes that was demanded, it unlikely the morjority of them could be made as they had already gone past their film production start date and thefore would be losing money with having to pay for the sound stage, production staff, actors etc sitting around and not doing anything.

Now I don't know about you guys, I don't have Amazon Prime as I don't use the site offten enough to warrent it and when I did use the free trail I found their steaming sevice a joke, with having to pay extra for some content.
about 99% of the people I know don't have Amazon Prime and not all of them are into Star Trek. However all of them do have Netflix. Needless to say, I would not surprise if this the case for most people and I am unwilling to pay for it just to watch this show. As Alex Kurtzman said, I'll go round to a friends house to watch it if it any good. Which I don't has it Kurtzman.

I have Amazon Prime. I order a lot of stuff from Amazon, plus I do enjoy their streaming video service and their streaming music service. I also occasionally rent movies on Prime, new releases and such. They also stuff you pay for that you own after you buy it. So, they're a cross between a streaming service like Netflix and a digital store like Google Play or iTunes. To be honest, Amazon Prime Video is similar to some other streaming services. Hulu has extra channels that they charge money for, and so does Sling (streaming cable TV service.) You can add channels to Prime for a fee, including CBS All Access. So, it's not really a surprise that CBS was able to partner with Amazon.

Outside of the States and Canada, the next biggest market for Trek is Europe. I have been looking round and found that Amazon Prime is not that big in Europe compared to the States. Their numbers are no where near Netflix so by going with Amazon, CBS has shoot themselves in the foot. As they have now lot a huge number of viewers by this move.

 

Yeah, over here, we have about as much programming included with Prime as we do on Netflix. I almost said there was a lot on there in my last post, but then I realized it might not be so in Europe.

Amazon is like cable tv pay to get in and pay for anything worthwhile. Almost all new shows are on season passes or buried in specialty channels you pay way too much for. Also these season passes are often far more costlier than the brds when released. Then again this age and time that is if your lucky if they release brds.

I have prime for other things and have not streamed anything off it in years. Every time I go to look for something it is 15usd this 10usd that. It is like getting access to see older BBC docus I have to pay some 15usd a mo channel fee.

I guess it depends on what you watch and what happens to be there. Amazon sucks as download ownership is stuck at 720p 2ch audio (in crappy aac codec) and pretty meh video compression then you have to set up all the annoying DRM crap and install dodgy playback devices.

Really though Prime video is more of a perk of getting prime for shipping and other services. I also think prime is free for those with amazon black cards. Last I checked it was 99usd a year. If you buy enough from the stupid place it quickly pays for itself.

I tired it a few years ago. Found the legend of korra which I nor the kids had seen and wanted to watch it.
You could watch the fist season for free, but then had to pay for the others.
As I said earlier, we don't buy enough off Amazon to justify the cost of Prime and only being able to watch limited programs without having to pay extras is not worth it. It part of the reason why Netflix is so popular in Europe, One payment once a month and everything is covered in that payment.

Dan, I don't know what it like in the States, but here most of the BBC Documentry get put on Netflix (sometimes for a limited time.) even though we have BBC Iplayer in the UK for BBC Content. Though everything there is time limited.

I pay the monthly fee for Prime, because I don't like that $99 annually payment plan.

I've been watching Gerry Anderson's UFO on there lately. Good stuff.

You guys know about this from me talking about it, but I thought I'll post it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddGDn40GNmU

Thank you, Dean!

There is a lot of gardening and cooking stuff on amazon as archives and older shows that you have to pay the channel fees for or ala cart. Only the large BBC docus get on flix here in the US. Really hate region locks and regions in general.

Did not know prime had a monthly fee set up shows how recent I looked at it but if they have UFO I might hae to go back in and set my client up to view with it as it has been decades since I seen an ep of it.

Marathoning farscape as a friend ripped the brds but his final season are cropped 16X9 video in 1080p so ewww. He is overseas atm so I have to wait to find out if the brds are like this or if he borked it. They used the PAL dvd source and scaled em so much cleaner and even smoother than the crappy US dvds. But if the brd 4th season is 4X3 on the brds I wont be picking them up T_T. Also noticed my US dvd cuts seem shorter than these brd rips.

I've never seen UFO, so I've really been enjoying it. Farscape is on there too, I think Babylon 5 is too. The thing I hate about those services is how they remove stuff. I was watching The A-Team on there a year or two ago, then they removed it from Prime.

A note on the monthly fee: it costs more in the long term. The $99/year plan costs less in the long term, if you don't mind coughing that much up at once.

Yeah it a right pain in the ass when they remove stuff.
Before Netflix did the deal with CBS for all the shows and STD, they had TNG up and only a few seasons.
I was halfway though watching season 2 when they pulled it. I was so happy when they brought all the shows back.

Some news on the DS9 Doc "What We Left Behind", it coming to DVD/Bluray and streaming in August. As to which streaming service, it has not yet been announced.

CBS had it annual "upfront" presentation for advertisers yesterday and they have finally revealed the title to Sir Patrick Stewarts New trek show.

It will be know as Star Trek: Picard

https://twitter.com/StarTrek/status/1128774612735614976

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fBGfmuzoEMo/UyPJJXOyRuI/AAAAAAAABhw/ZjAk0p2MSGA/s1600/322358-picard-facepalm.jpg)

Really, that the name you came up with? This was the best possible title for the show you could come up with.
Any hope I have for this show is slowly disappearing. That not to say I won't give it a chance, but at this point I am not expecting a lot.

In other news, CBS also confirmed that in Canada, Picard will be airing on Space.
I find it interesting that for the States and the rest of the world we have to pay for a subscription service, but in Canada they don't. Yes I know Space is a cable channel, but most people already having this and I would not be surprised that it thrown in with their Broadband connection or the other way around.

Star Trek: Geezer & Generation Millennial.

US has no real sci-fi channel anymore on cable. Just slop-fy with crappy fantasy shows. Though they have The Expanse atm but heh.

Interesting developments!

Yeah, once they started spelling it wrong, Syfy went to crap. Also, Amazon Prime has The Expanse. ;)

Star Trek: Picard. Yep, brilliant. Though, at least the abbreviation this time will be STP instead of STD. :P

Quote from: scifidude79 on May 16, 2019, 12:18 pmStar Trek: Picard. Yep, brilliant. Though, at least the abbreviation this time will be STP instead of STD. :P

I have been told that JJ Abrams is like a snake skin salesman, Kurtzman is an oil treatment salesman.

(https://my-test-11.slatic.net/p/8/stp-oil-treatment-300ml-7871-77473011-ef0034d4f76ed530c796833d9cae831f-catalog.jpg_720x720q75.jpg)

LOL!  You guys crack me up!

You know I had nearly had 24 hours to think about it.
From the information we have the title does work.

Following my thinking below on past show titles.

The Next Generation: This show is a contortion of Star Trek of a mixed crew on another ship named Enterprise set years after TOS and films that had come out at the time. So the name works.

Deep space Nine: A show set on the Space Station Deep Space Nine. A simple title but you know what the show is about, the station and the people living on it.

Voyager: the title came with the same reason as DS9, they could not exactly call it Star Trek: Lost in Space.

Enterprise: again this is a show about ship named Enterprise. You also have to remember that for the first two season it did not have Star Trek at the front of the name and calling it The Early Year or Birth of The Federation would not work. (I hoping that foundation of the United Federation of Planets was the endgame for the show if it had run a full seven seasons.)

And finally Discovery: again a show about the Starship Discovery, however after watching two season the title should really been, Star Trek: Michael Burnham.

So with this latest show the information that we know about it being primary about Picard, the title works.
However until we actually see the show we won't know if that is the right name or not.

Found a leaked picture from the shoot of the Star Trek: Picard. It also gives us a look at what the Uniforms of this timeframe will look like.

(https://forums.scifi-meshes.com/uploads/editor/rb/b9e2m81muguq.jpg)


The Uniform looks just like the early DS9 Jumpsuit with some very minor changes made to it. (A larger collar)
There dose not appear to much other details with the uniform though looking at the Vulcan? in the blue uniform, the ranking pips are now above the com badge.


Some have pointed out that it not the DS9 uniform but the one that was seen in Alex Kurztman Countdown Comic that tired into JJ 09 film.


(https://borgdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/star-trek-countdown-captain-data.jpg)

Personal, I don't see it as has been taken to far away to see the uniform properly.

Just from that photo it looks like a cross between the TNG and DS9 uniforms.

Quote from: scifidude79 on May 18, 2019, 10:50 amJust from that photo it looks like a cross between the TNG and DS9 uniforms.

That's exactly how I thought of it!

They must have bought back some of the old uniforms and made small changes, as they don't have the budget to make new ones.
Rumour has it that since only Amazon Prime has signed on for the show. The Budget has been cut from $400 Million to less that $200 Million and most of that is going on Sir Patrick Stewarts wages.

Quote from: Freak on May 18, 2019, 04:14 pmmost of that is going on Sir Patrick Stewarts wages.

It's good to the King.

Quote from: Freak on May 18, 2019, 04:14 pmThey must have bought back some of the old uniforms and made small changes, as they don't have the budget to make new ones.

I was just thinking about that, and I thought most of that stuff got sold years ago. Remember the "It's a Wrap!" auction? Plus, there have been others.

That's hysterical!

Looking at how badly fitted they are they likely used a existing pattern from a fabric store and ran off generic sizes. I do not think cbs has any assets left from trek. All the people maintaining the asset history there have all be let go as well as at paramount. Most of the studios now do not retain assets anymore but bin everything. Cheaper to write it off and make the state and gov pay for it.

also 200m is a more realistic price for a show. the earlier quotes were far beyond the most expensive tv shows in history. 40m per ep.

It's a Wrap sold most of the existing costumes, models and props. This all happened after the split of CBS and Paramount, which caused more issues than it was worth.

They could very well be fabric store patterns. As for the fit, extras usually get whatever is closest to their size. No doubt, the camera is focusing on Picard and everyone else about is just scenery.

Yeah they did sell I think 99% of it, but I understood the kept a few items.
You can blame Les Moonves for that shit show, but then you can also blame him for the crap that going on now.

Anyway here another look at the uniform from upper chest up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doAQYNlUrI0&t=180s

I have to say I am not impressed, this uniform just look cheap.

Les Moonves isn't totally to blame. It was Sumner Redstone who split the companies in the first place. The problem is, he left Star Trek in Moonves's hands. ::)

I bet if he still got his mind, he kicking his own arse.
Sure both Companies did well for a few years when they split. However since 2010 Paramount has gone down the toilet and CBS has followed. Of course there is no way of knowing if the split never happened that Paramount would be doing well with it film and TV arm still together, but atleast Star Trek would be in once peace, Enterprise would not have been cancelled and it unlikely Kurtzman would be in charge now.
Sumner Redstone only did the split so he could sell more shares on the stock market.

So a Teaser for Picard Dropped Yesterday. CBS has it region locked to North America, but thankful youtube come to the aid of those living outside the North America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzQS4JaTapk

This Teaser dose nothing for me. The shots look good, but it does not grab me, which is the freaking point of trailers.
Also if you remove the Voiceover and labels from the wine bottles, this could be any futuristic sci-fi film.
Talking about the voice over. It's looking the biggest rescue in the history of Alpha and Beta Quadrant is the destruction of Romulus.

Any hope I had for this show is dying out. If Picard does turn out to be good I will be pleasantly surprised, but give who running things that not likely.

Only sf like thing seen I have issues with. . . crop dusters over wine grapes? lol. This isnt acres of corn, or wheat. Id expect something small or something not anyway related to a flying device.

Yeah the whole SUPERNOVA is a threat to the galaxy thing really puts me off. Such shit science that. Even if it was a gamma ray burster it likely would only threaten a single system maybe anything in the direction of but the chances of it would be low that it would hit anything in system.

More I think about this one the more I will likely pass on it. I do admit it is creating a lot of buzz as that is apparently important to kids these days. Hell some times I wonder how many of these sheep flock and make something popular or a success is just cause it creates buzz or hype even if it is a pile of shit, hell the fact it might be a train wreck would attract them as anyone under 30 seems to just LOVE to watch other FAIL and laugh at them.

Least they could have done is tease ships or something other than shit that hasn't changed in the last 300yrs. 500+ by tng. Also nitpick that woman's voice was horrible to hear without turning things up. over boosted and the wrong timber for tv voiceover.

I watched the teaser earlier, it looks like a teaser. They usually don't do much for me.

Heh, when I think about the narration on this it sounds more like a primer for the New Frontier series books. Swap Picard for Mac.

I read the first few books before I stopped reading Trek Novel.
They where good book, but then David is my favourite Trek Author. Q-squared is still one of my favourite Trek books.

yeah they are OK, some of the books have some serious lack of knowledge of trek stuff science and well the stories themselves have contradictions or unresolved issues that never get approached later on. One I am reading now they keep mentioning lazors unbalanced "thrust" from nacelles so on. Reminds me at times of Chinese films in how much of things are WOT how continuity.

Mostly been reading a mess of them out of laziness of hunting new books to read.

However with all the meh it is one way to get old style trek, some is meh some is ok. I prefer the series where it is not a single author as a few I am not a fan of.

Calhoun has that whole lost faith in Starfleet etc that they seem to be dumping on Picard.

I got bored with New Frontier. The writing isn't bad but, like MKF said, there's a bit of a lack of knowledge. They're clearly Peter David books, with Star Trek dressing. But, that's typical of the novels. I do find it interesting how he put together a crew that includes a lot of TNG guest characters. It's like: what happened to them after the episode(s) they were in? But, I didn't feel the connection to those characters that I do with the main ones from the TV shows and movies.

Q-Squared, on the other hand, is really good. I have an old well worn paperback copy. It's really interesting, especially how he connects Trelane and Q, a connection that many fans have made anyway, and the interesting alternate realities that he created.

yeah I have been avoiding much of the tv character driven stories except the fall series which in a way was a mash up of other series all mixed up leaving me a bit WOT at some characters. I think in new frontiers that was what had me reading were the bit characters being fleshed out. Some of which were only on once but referred to multiple times like Selar (think that is the right vulcan) Though there was one TOS one that lead into the series about that station with the SCE Daedalus assigned to it. That dealt with Kirk and co pretty well. Some others like one with janeway were clearly a one sided feminist opinion fest that put me off as it detracted heavily from the story. IE in VOY era Janeway would not be using her sex as an excuse or reason to push or sway choices or opinion. Just broke her for me.

I have to say the TNG and TOS SCE stories were my fave so far.

Oh there was that capt's table antho with picard, just was not written as picard to me. Least compared to other authors use of him.


I am horrible at remembering authors and things like that. Bands musicians names etc. lol Does not help some authors I read I like say older stuff vs newer stuff as they change for the better or worse.

I have been wanting to read some of the Q stories but the TNG TMP even DS9 and VOY stuff has all those tv to book stories mixed in with original stuff so I am wary of starting in on them. I need to find some non trek serials to read too but I have read much of the things I know about so far. Not a fan of fannish stories, stuff where the author mixes in ren-fair or filking crap into it. Was never into that stuff. Hell just a few years ago I would never have considered reading trek books. Remember picking up a wars one back in the late 80s early 90s and YEUGH it was bad, like some of those battle tech stuff with old anime or kids tv robots used in some future western scifi thing. (think it was a tabletop game originally) Worked at a book store back then and got loads of free send backs and damaged books to read.

Anyhow off topic rambling LOL finishing off a PIKE short story with space whales and stripe faced dickhole aliens.

Yeah, Dr. Selar was mentioned over the intercom in "Yesterday's Enterprise," but she was only seen in "The Schizoid Man." Robin Lefler was in two separate episodes of TNG, around the time Wesley was at the Academy. Elizabeth Shelby was in the two parter "The Best of Both Worlds," and Edward Jellico was on the two parter "Chain of command." I think those are all the New Frontier characters with TNG ties, though looking at it on Memory Beta, I see that he included a couple of the aliens from TAS.

I'd actually like to see more books that center around other ships and crews. Starfleet is big, and we've only touched on a few ships here and there. If I remember correctly, some of those "Lost Era" novels that took place throughout the 24th century were pretty cool. The Stargazer novels are interesting too. Though, after "The Valiant," some of the earlier ones are kind of rough until they find their footing.

And, while we're sharing, I'm presently reading DUNE. :)

They have the Klingon ones too but it has been a while since I read those. Seems they did not sell well so only a few books in that. I think the lost era were some of the first ones I read. Ones with the ent-b.

I think new front had a few others bit security officers etc. The TNG era SCE I think did that too. Just hits at and not really there as a insert unless you look up the character. I am generally looking up arcane aliens as I cannot remember half a dozen at any one time and often they do refer to canon aliens. A lack of Alan Dean Foster level of descriptions leave me wondering whats being talked to talked about etc. I think in the Pip and Flinx books he would spend a page on a description at times >_>

ATM it looks like any books not centered on STD or JJ trek are at a complete hault. Left many series in limbo. I think the last classic trek book was some time in 2015 2016

Quote from: MadKoifish on May 25, 2019, 11:24 amATM it looks like any books not centered on STD or JJ trek are at a complete hault. Left many series in limbo. I think the last classic trek book was some time in 2015 2016

The Problem with that is that they are not selling like the Classic Trek Book did.
So sooner or later you'll see an influx of them.

They must not be halted anymore, because new TOS and TNG books are due out this year. (one in three days) Someone probably realized those sell better, and books are much easier to get back started again than TV shows. Some authors were probably sitting on novels they wrote before that all was halted. Though, there's also a Disco novel due in a few months. Really, it's smart to keep writing books from all Trek series and eras, as peoples' tastes vary.

That's cool. I had wondered if they just axed it all until the whole legal bs thing sorted out. Least that was my guess at the lack of anything. Some sites show series as canceled or hiatus.

I searched Amazon for new Star Trek books, that's how I found out they're coming out again. :) The novels I see coming out are by veteran Star Trek authors Christopher L. Bennett, David Mack and Greg Cox. So, they could be ones that they've been sitting on for a while. Also, there are illustrated handbooks for the 1701-D and 1701/1701-A coming out this year. It's definitely nice to see classic Trek coming back, at least in print. :)

I am going to guess that CBS halted Cannon trek books, to get some Discovery books out and see how they do.
Once they saw they not really selling, they went back into production of Cannon trek books.

Not News but I thought this was an interesting watch.
RMB talks about how the Picard series is not part of the Cannon timeline and is part of the JJ Prime timeline. (This is where STD sits.) He also explains why this is the case and himself running into the licencing issues between Cannon Trek and JJ Trek, when working on the TNG Remastered Blu-ray boxset.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx2SRXtsaO0

Look like Brent Spiner is heading back to Trek. He will be guest staring in an episode and possibly more.
At this time it is unknown if he is going to playing B4, with Data Memorise or another character.

https://www.startrektnz.com/news/593-brent-spiner-to-guest-star-in-star-trek-picard

With Spiner coming back in front of the camera, and Frakes directing a few episodes. Could we see more of TNG cast or possibly someone form DS9/ VOY or one of the many recurring guest stars like John de Lancie?

Eugh too many timelines and BS going on to make even dedicated fans are likely sick of. Can imagine a casual would be lost in all this multiverse bullshit.

I saw a headline saying he's playing Data. That fits because, in the Countdown comic, which is in the JJ Verse timeline, Data's personality took over the B4 android and he was captain of the Enterprise.

Quote from: scifidude79 on May 30, 2019, 11:14 amI saw a headline saying he's playing Data. That fits because, in the Countdown comic, which is in the JJ Verse timeline, Data's personality took over the B4 android and he was captain of the Enterprise.

If he does play Data I bet you any money, they will say that B4 skin was designed to age, unlike the original Data model. which will not make any sense see as the B4 Model was an prototype for Lore and Data.

It was only when Noonien Soong built the Juliana Soong model was it design to age.

I would prefer Brent to play another Soong character, Either Noonien brother or a son from a first marriage.

I don't know how they're going to handle things. If they explain anything, it will probably be some BS like he intentionally altered his appearance to appear more human.

Brent has played more than one Soong before, so that's a possibility. The headline I saw was from a story that has since been pulled.

So that's it then? ST: Picard will be in the JJ Verse?

Yes, it seems that way. It also seems that CBS never learns from their mistakes.

Quote from: Angry White Woman on Jun 04, 2019, 01:23 amSo that's it then? ST: Picard will be in the JJ Verse?

You can blame JJ for that, but it also CBS fault, well Les Moonves. If they had waiting a year before starting production (waited until 2018) and realised STD in 2019, Then their would be no Alex Kurtzman Hidden Hideout or anything to do with JJ and Bad Robot. That is if the rumoured contract of non compete for ten years is true. Then CBS would not be in bed with JJ and co now.

I can't see this doing well outside of the US and Canada. Amazon Prime is not as popular as Netflix and it has a lot of hidden pay walls, which I am sure Picard will be behind. Hell Prime did it to one of the most anticipated own shows. (The Grand Tours.) I am sure it will do well in it first few episode, but if anything like STD it done.

I was thinking that the news and rumour on Picard had been quite since the leak of those set photos.
Then this morning I woke to two peace's of rumours.

First up is that filming on the first four episode are compete and where shown to a test audience.
It would make sense for the first four episode to be finished in front of the camera if you look at the filming schedule for all trek series made under Berman being 7 to 8 days filming per episode. However that does not take into account the time to edit and for V/FX to be added. As Picard only started filming last month it likely that these episode that where shown where rushed together with editing and have very basic V/FX if any at all.

The source of the rumour has stated that roughly 80% of the test audience hated what they where shown and the 20% that did like it, where fans of the JJ movies. Also the licenses partners that have so far rejected signing onto Picard also hated what they saw and are still refusing to sign on.

The Second rumour is that due reaction of the test screening Alex Kurtzman, has been banned from the sets of Picard and is likely on his way out. If this is true it is unlikely CBS will fire him as they are only a year into his five year deal to head Star Trek. What it more likely to happen is that CBS will promote him into a position where he has nothing to do with Trek, except hold a title in the credits.

What did CBS expect to happen with the Picard series when they got the same team that made STD which is hated by 95% of the fan base working on this show.

I have also heard another rumour regarding the lawsuit against CBS and Netflix with the copyright infringement.
This has not come form my normal sources so I would take this with a large bag of sault. But rumour has it that Netflix's are in talks with Anas Abdin lawyer and could switch sides. Reason for this is that Netflix put the money up for season 1 of STD and had no creative control over what was made, so are innocent of any copyright infringement. As the product they got was not what they expecting and they are pissed with CBS, they could side with Anas Abdin which will not be good for CBS if this happens and news outlet start to report on the case, which will likely happen if they do.

It's going to be a dumpster fire.

Okay I have just heard something very interesting, but I need to confirm it from a couple of other sources. Don't trust this yet, however saying that it to good not to share.

Rumour has it CBS has brought Kurtzman out of his contract. In another word he's been fired.

If this is ture then Kurtzman is gone and has nothing to do Star Trek.
This means we can start the healing, but we also need the writer to go as well and hope CBS brings in some that actually knows what they are doing. They don't need to be fan, just someone who can produce a show in budget and put together a writers room that write a good story.

They need someone who can produce the show without interference. IE: let others make the creative decisions, just sign off on things.

If it's true, that is.

It look like this story could be true.
I have seen another two places mention this. Just need a Statement from CBS to announce it now.

As I figured they would find something to break the contract vs pretending he did something and promote him elsewhere harmless.

Likely it was a offer to payout his contract for a fraction of the tenure at the rate agreed upon. Then again who knows until official word comes down and even then it might be what said but not what is.

Too bad the Picard series had to be contaminated by it. Then again focusing on a individual in trek ehhh. I remember how people hated the gen films for the whole "picard and data show" feel.

I just want less of this internal demons bullshit they have been vomiting out since ENT. I still wont forgive ENT for turning the Vulcans into evil nannys and bigots.

Yeah the early Vulcans in Ent were crap, but at least Manny Cotto corrected that towards the end.

Anyway some more news has broke. It looks like Bad Robot has signed a deal with Warner Brothers and heading over there.
This is the deal JJ has been shopping around for, for sometime now. (Though I am not sure how he been able to do this deal while working on Star Wars Episode IX. He could not have been full focused on fixing that mess if he also getting his company a huge step up in Hollywood.)

So with Bad Robot leaving Paramount for WB and the rumour of Kurtzman being bought out of his contract. Does this mean they have given up on Trek? (Rumour has it that Alt licensing that Paramount/ Bad Robot has with CBS is up for renewal this year. For Bad Robot to keep the licence they have they need to have a film in preproduction which is not happening at the moment.)

I for one hope so, as it would mean that CBS and Paramount can sort out this whole licensing issue.
However Picard which is in production will still be made under this licence just like STD. So even if CBS can fix it with Kurtzman gone and get it out at the original planed time (End of 2019) it still going to be a duded.

Speaking of STD, I have heard that the writer have not even started writing any scripts for season 3. Given the time of year, it should be in production now to get a season 3 out for the end of the year or beginning of next. This would indicated that even though it has been green lighted for a season 3, CBS has not given it a budget and therefore can not go into production leaving it in limbo and possibly being cancelled quietly when Picard comes out.

No ammount or reconning can fix what was put in place due to the early eps of that series. Claming they found enlightment due to a regime change is laughable at best. No what they did early on just eliminated the whole premise and meaning behind everything that went before. Worst off it was done for no real reason at all but to create some pointless tension that had no meaning behind anything in the show except to be used as a crutch for the writters to fall back on because they couldn't stand the idea of doing stories not in TNG era where all the toys exist that they want to use. Again part of why STD does not work for me, everything they do is too easy. It is like they are in a city driving cop cars about and not in space.

Writing for shows is just deteriorating. Look at that new Swamp Thing movie it is like those morons did not research virus, CDC, or even simple police/marshal procedures. (hell add in hospital regs to that list too) I cannot watch 5 min of that show and not spot crap that is wrong poorly written or clearly out of the scope of knowledge of anyone on staff as they shot it and no one had balls to say UM, this shit is wrong. It is like watching a cop show scenario written by a 5yr old. AND then the producer and staff are completely at a loss as to why the show was canceled before it aired the 2nd episode.

Read something somewhere that if STD s3 happens it is only going to be 6 eps. Noticed the west has gotten lazy where we once got 52 to 26 eps we now get 13 if we are lucky and more often it is 8 10 or less. Look at Dr who. Though less of that we get the better as modern who is crap.

If Picard is as bad as I have read, they could just do like they did with all those near finished superhero flics back in the 90s. Pay it all off and shelf the contents in a vault in the hopes no one digs it up any time in the future. I cannot fathom how they could claim there is a pre kelvin universe of trek that is not the canon when they claimed it was based in the canon timeline. Just stupid excuses to not deal with a proper show bible.

They won't write the Picard series off, CBSAA is riding on it. Sure when the show starts they will get a huge intake from people interested in the show. But if the show is as bad as we are hearing, then the same thing happen with STD people will just cancel their subscription.
Either way CBSAA is doomed!


As for season lengths being cut down. They are just following the UK, the UK has been doing that for years. 6 to 10 episodes per season. The UK did it because they did not have the money to spend on a 20 to 26 episode season like the US could spend. (Smaller population and therefore smaller income.) This allowed Actors to go off and do different projects between seasons. However if you had a show that was low cost like a sit-com you would get some times two seasons per year and if they where big shows like Doctor Who or Only Fools and Horses you would also get a Christmas Special.

From what I am seeing US shows that are 8 to 15 episode long are mainly from cable or steaming services like Netflix.
The shows that still shown on the terrestrial channels like CBS, NBC etc that are still are full seasons of 20 to 26 episodes. But looking at those shows from this side of the pound it look like cheap shows to make. IE Cop shows or Hospital dramas so not a lot of CG work needed for them.

CBSAA was doomed the day they decided to diversify the streaming environment by creating it. People will not go back to the cable ala carte bullshittery of paying 30usd for a single channel and bills in the 250usd a mo. As of yet they are starting to get up there with how many individual stream services one has to sub to to get shows.

Picard can be shelved I have seen studios over the years shelf complete or near complete films and those are a much larger outlay. One comes to mind was the 90s capt america film. That one was 10m back then. (seems it was released at some point as a D2V. Least I think it was capt america.

If they cannot rescue it, and if it costs too much they will easily write it off.

Cable stations started the half season or truncated series. Also started this split season bullshit where you get a 3 to 6mo gap or worse a 3mo gap every 3 to 4 eps.
I do not watch cop shows shit crime stories and the like so I dunno. The west seems obsessed with mystery crime crime murder, this shit outnumber anything else even sports in how much there is. Gotta wonder how much real crime is fed by it. But much of what I do watch has rarely had anything more than 13eps for the last decade or more.

The official explanation was that the Vulcans on Enterprise were following a corrupted version of Surak's teachings. When they found his original writings and Vulcans started reading them, things began to change. It's not something that would happen overnight, as it seemed to on the show. But, given the fact that all of Vulcan society was based Surak's teachings, that sort of social upheaval could happen in, say, a century. It's possible, but I agree that the Vulcans were badly treated on that show. One could easily say that many of the things they said and did, including their bigotry towards humans, was the exact opposite of logical. They were also very militaristic and trigger happy, not at all like the peace loving race we'd seen before.

I could see the Picard series being shelved. As MKF said, it wouldn't be the first time. The whole reason shows are shown to test audiences is to see how they'd fare with audiences. Movies that have had millions of dollars put into them have been shelved due to bad test audience reactions.


I think it's safe to say that STD isn't getting a third season. If they can't sell a series with one of Trek's most beloved stars and characters, why put money into your other unpopular show? Besides, if they shifted the money to Picard, where will more money come from to do STD?

I wouldn't be surprised if all of this "tainted" Trek crap came to an end and the stuff they have in the works was swept under the rug. Pay people and send them home. Then get a new group together to produce some decent Star Trek. Though, as MKF also said, writing has gone downhill. I don't watch a lot of TV anymore due to how badly written it is. Even movies have gone downhill. A lot of newer stuff seems to be written for millennials with no attention span.

Now, for my honest opinion: I've never been excited for the Picard series. I love TNG, but it won't be that. And, agreeing with MKF again, I don't want to get into Picard's personal issues. It's not a good premise for a show.

They were bigoted towards social groups within their own society. Not something from a race who goes out to make contact with others. Add in all that crap with the andorians. All it was is a cheap way to humanize them make humans appear superior to. Whole point of vulcans was they were NOT human. Spock was there to be everything 60s Judaeo religion saw as evil and hateful in a visual sense and to show looks do not reflect the creature.

I was put off PICARD once they said it was not canon or Kelvin universe and the whole feeling of the promo, like Picard left SF in disgust or not on amicable terms. Maybe another ENEMY WITHIN bullshit seems the go to for Kurtz.

Anyhow I will be surprised if anything comes of it. Least STD we had ship art and other things leaking way before primary shooting. It is almost like they did things in reverse to get the ball rolling. All we know is that enterprise bridge is going to be redressed for it as it was shipped down to LA.

STD dunno. I have not seen viewing figs and avoid most of the sites as many like trekmovie are super biased and site runners seem to be on the dole. Only thing I have seen is a cut down ep count or just more 5 to 15min shorts which will just kill it as I will not watch youtube attention span trek. I really hate how everyone jumped onto that wagon of koolaid and started jump cutitng shit, GOD I HATE JUMPCUTS, pauls hardware is the WORST for it, drove me to quit watching his vids. Do a podcast if your going to cut every 4ms between words.

Personally I think all of this will taint trek enough CBS/Paramount will wash their hands of it and maybe even consider selling it off. I mean all the recent dvd/brd releases they complain; not enough sales etc in a era where more and more people refuse to buy media. be it due to how retarded brd is with all the adaptive DRM your always updating the firmware and god forbid if your manufacturer of your machine ceases to update it. Hell I have not had mine hooked up for 5yrs or more now out of frustration due to slow firmware updates and causing me to wait a hour to watch my movie. Other just hate having the "wall" of media. Though in the 90s that was like a badge of honor. hahaha.

As for JJ and bad robot, the company name really says it all. I dunno why anyone would want to work with them.

Yeah, the Vulcans really came out bad in "The Andorian Incident." They're bitchy with Archer for causing the whole situation, making it sound like it's his fault that the Andorians where there, even though they were there already when Enterprise arrived. They had that air of superiority about them, then Archer uncovered that they were in fact spying on the Andorians. So, they were lying the whole time and their "holier than thou" attitude was unjustified, everything the Andorians did was totally justified. But, did they admit that? No, they still bitched at Starfleet, acting like it was Archer's fault that their monastery got destroyed. Admiral Forrest even pointed out that it was due to their illegal listening post, and Soval still acted like it wasn't the Vulcans' fault. That's definitely not how the Vulcans acted in TOS or any other Star Trek.

Though, on a fun note, "The Andorian Incident" was directed by Roxanne Dawson. :) It's a good episode with a strong beginning for the Andorians and showing why they wind up trusting and working with humanity, but it was a bad episode for the badly written Vulcans.

I didn't realize there was an issue with the STD Blu-Rays, as I bought the first season on DVD. Though, I play discs on game consoles anyway, and they receive routine updates.

I agree, they'll make Picard go away. If they don't even have any VFX done, why waste the money paying someone to do them. It seems like all they have is some filmed stuff that they showed to a test audience, likely to gauge reactions before throwing more money into it. If people don't like the stuff they filmed, then throwing in some shiny VFX won't make them like it any better.

The good thing is, no matter what, Sir Patrick Stewart will get paid due to his pay or play contract. ;)

I actually think it might be good for Star Trek to go on another hiatus, at least for canon stuff. Let the novels and other licensed stuff start up again. Who cares if it goes with the movies an TV shows? The novels, comics an other licensed stuff never did before. Pick up trying to make Star Trek again in another 5-10 years, to let this stuff all simmer down in peoples' minds. You don't want to over saturate the market, that didn't work for Star Wars and it won't work for Star Trek.

once encryption or the brd DRM is cracked they patch it so you have to connect your BRD player up to the internet to do a slow as shit firmware update. Something you often have to do weekly or monthly. KIM mobo manu recommend you do not do it unless something is broke as 1 in 10 flashes will corrupt the chip and fail. Maybe thge brd players have a dual system so if it corrupts or it sees a bad hash it can recover. Either case almost ewvery time I buy a new BRD I have to do a firmware update to play it.

I wholly doubt they back test these patches with every disc so in time old dics might stop working because of this. That or your manufacturer stops supporting a 8yr old device etc. Meaning youll need to BUY a new player. And if vcr and dvd players are a example each year the things get shittier and shittier. Record players are a good example unless you dropping 1200usd or 4000usd all the tricks and quality playback is a lost art. Same for cassette tape players. All the tricks are lost. So anything new is equal to 1966 era players, you know those crappy recording things from the 70s you saw at grade school.

DVD does not have this adaptive DRM. It is because DVD drm was hacked and they could not control it that brd got it. Heck BRD gen1 was cracked I think in hours of release. Dunno why they bother the effort to crack the disc and rip it to share or do whatever is a lot more of a hassle than to buy it. I guess they afraid for the 10 people who check discs out at librarys or mooch from friends ripping them. The loss of a few grand. Renting and ripping is a joke as many places it is cheaper to BUY the disc. So anyone ripping are people like me who want it on demand sans all the prgs and other unskippable bullshit like nike adverts and who do not want a room taken up with shelving with discs. All my dvds are in a closet atm as it all resides on a hdd with nice un-bitmapped subs and no Hearing Impaired events.
I play everything off a pc now anyhow. So much easier than dealing with components in huge racks. HEH one time I had 2 tall AV cabinets full of equalizers amps and devices MD, dvd, svcd, cd, turntable, cassette decks, LD, vcrs etc. Now I only have a sub amp head deck and a preamp for the sub amp to control vol and tone and cutoffs as the newer main amps these days are all tv display interface and layers of stupid menus to adjust simple crap like sub vol and roll off curve. Though roll off curves were not in the past an option most cutoffs were just a selection dail or hand made chokes. (Im talking about removing the sound above 80~400hz for the subwhoofers) I would like to have a nice old record player in my rack mostly for stuff I only have on record but those needles are not so affordable. Though much more so than in 97 (I saw one for my unit for 190usd then) I think they are down to 60usd now if they even make them for my table. Then again it is only for my import and sampler records, and a few that never saw a cd release.

HAH reminds me of the elusive Buckaroo banzai dvd back in the day before dvd went to the anamorphic recording IE a full frame 720X480 for letterbox vs hard coded black bars. Hated that on my early discs like stargate. Meaning it only had like 240pixels in height. That and pan and scan 16X9 off a 70mm widescreen.

rambling now lol.

Oh yeah possible trek thing, lego got minions from mega, wonder if they will pick trek as it was so common in the cusoo (ideas) subs they banned it as at the time they could not in anyway access the license. ATM it has expired with kreo and mega.


also ARGH RAGE this forum keeps shunting me to the top of the page vs the last post or even to my post after posting, jkust goes right up to the top. Is this a setting? I have wiped cookies multiple times to fix it and logged out and in.

The forum does the same thing to me. ::)

Yeah, I knew about Blu-Ray players needing updates, but I didn't know it was that bad. It wouldn't surprise me if manufacturers did stop supporting old players. That's how stuff works in the disposable society we've become. "Oh, this is five years old and out of date, time for a new one." You're right about the quality going down with newer players. Cheapo brand players have forced good companies like Sony to drop prices to stay competitive. Unless they find a way to cut manufacturing costs, the only other place to cut is quality.

It's been some time since I used a regular Blu-Ray player. I bought my PS4 in 2015. I also now have an XBOX One, so no need to have a dedicated disc player hooked up. Those both receive regular updates, so no worries about compatibility. It would be frustrating, though, to buy a disc or set, go home to watch it only to find out that it's incompatible. :(

I guess I was fortunate to get it on DVD. We had both where I work and I wasn't anticipating really liking it, so I didn't want to spend extra money on it. So, cheapness won the day. ;) Besides, the player upscales the picture to 1080p, so it's not like I lost a lot of quality.

One of the lessons that I thought MIGHT have made an impression (until it became OBVIOUS that the lesson went completely unlearned) was that the Star Trek Discovery show runners could have let the Discovery move off to their new home (I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't seen it) and let the Captain Pike Show become a real thing.

People LOVED seeing Pike and Number One!  They REALLY could have kept that going and made a lot of people happy.  All in my humble opinion, of course.

Oh, yeah.  I keep being sent to the top as well.  I'll have to do some research when my PACS go-live is done.

I want a Pike show. I love "The Cage." It's a shame they didn't pick up that version of TOS. I love what came out, but Jeffrey Hunter was wounded on the set of a movie in 1969, which led to him dying when he got home. If he'd been on Trek, that probably wouldn't have happened.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Jun 19, 2019, 12:28 amI want a Pike show. I love "The Cage." It's a shame they didn't pick up that version of TOS. I love what came out, but Jeffrey Hunter was wounded on the set of a movie in 1969, which led to him dying when he got home. If he'd been on Trek, that probably wouldn't have happened.

I have been EXPECTING a Pike show ever since Star Trek: Enterprise was announced!  I heard "prequel" and "Enterprise" and I thought to myself that it HAD to be a Pike show.  Alas, not to be.

Woah heh never knew he died that way. I know he died but sheesh.

Yeah it would have been cool to just follow pike after and flush std. Though I dunno std s2 did not write him well. Too much of a pushover.
I did like cage exp with the command deck workings. Spock yelling out orders, which they still do today. Even TOS they held to a more professional operations vs STD where it was like friends on a couch playing fortnight.

Yeah, an on set explosion was supposed to go inward but went outward instead caused a concussion. He was feeling bad when he flew home, went to the hospital but they couldn't find anything wrong. So, he went home, collapsed going up some stairs and hit his head on the railing, which caused a brain hemorrhage, which killed him.

While I enjoyed seeing Pike and Number One on STD, and I loved seeing the Enterprise bridge updated and at least still pay homage to TOS. I don't want another prequel Trek. We been there and done that.
Trek is about moving forward, but they got to move away from the JJ look and this BS Licensing they gotten into.
This is why the Picard series is DOA.

What I want to see is a show that is set in the Picard series era, still retain Cannon, have good stories that are well written and possible be a mix of TNG and DS9. This would keep all the crap that Starfleet is evil and fighting between crew mates away yet keep the grittiness of DS9 and it story arcs. Also being set in this era leaves the door open for cameos of past Trek Stars to appear, but I would not want them to appear until at least the middle or end of season 2. (This way it give time for them to grow on their own.)
Saying that I would have one exception to that, I would like a cameo from someone that was in VOY to appear in the pilot to hand the "baton" over. Like TNG did with Macoy, DS9 with Picard, Voyager with Quark. Enterprise "Batton" hand over did not work as it was not a hand over from VOY to the show, so they went with Cochran. (yes I know it could not have been done unless it was a relative of one of the VOY crew.)

With Bad Robot moving to Warner Brother, I have heard they have terminated their movie deal with Paramount and are vacating the Paramount lot. If this is true that would mean they have also given up with Trek as that was part of their deal with Paramount. This would also include Tarantino Trek film as that was part of the deal with Paramount, and Tarantino film was meant to take place in the JJ Kelvin Universe.

I've always wanted to see a Trek series in the canon that wasn't focused on Starfleet. One that maybe followed the life a Han Solo like privateer who occasionally did jobs for S31 or the highest bidder. Make it dark, gritty, adult and full of intrigue subplots and politics.

I've thought about one that follows civilians too. There could be a lot of stuff you could show beyond that "shiny" Starfleet look of the other shows. I'm not sure if I'd have them know about S31, but then I'm not a big fan of S31. But, they could do the occasional job for the Federation. As huge as the Federation is, you know they'd have to hire people to do some work for them that Starfleet just didn't have the personnel or ships for.

Yeah it does not have to be a Starfleet show, though it could have a Starfleet characters part of the main cast.
To make it different it could be set on a outter rim world of the Federation and the colonists have to defend for themselves as the nearest Starfleet base is over a month away and Starfleet ships only turn up every few months.
So these people are pretty much on their own. DS9 sort of gave that impression when it started, but that slowly fade away with time. (Earth was meant to be a two month trip from DS9 when it started but then was cut down to something like a week. It was also stated in Way of The Warrior when Worf was thinking of leaving Starfleet to join a cargo crew on the other side of the Federation that the trip would take six months.) Given that the Alpha and Beta Quadrants have been pretty much explored or Other Empires occupied that space (Romulan and  Klingon). I would have it set in the Gama quadrant in the opposite direction from the Dominion. (We where never told how far from the Wormhole the Dominion was and where it was in the Gama Quadrant, just that the founder homeworld was something like a two week trip form the wormhole.)

Kurtzman hasn't been fired, according to this article:

https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2019/06/21/star-trek-alex-kurtzman-not-fired/

Apparently, the "source" for that rumor has a habit of making false claims like that.

It's not really a surprise that it's fake news, since there's no indication from CBS that he's been shit canned. So, believe what you want, but that's an article showing some good reasoning why he's not been canned. I think the Hawaii 5-0 part actually makes the most sense. I've not watched it in years, but I know it's still on the air and that Kurtzman produces it. I just checked it and the ratings for season 9 were pretty strong. CBS isn't going to fire someone producing a money making show.

I have not seen that article thanks for sharing it.

The person they are talking about that spread the news that Kurtzman is fired is Gary from Nerdrotic. If you watch his announcement, not once does he say Kurtzman has been fired. He states that Kurtzman is done. Gary also states that this is Rumour and not fact, he goes on to say that he has spoken to other source to get conformation weather this is true. One came back to say News like this does not stay quite for long and the other said it looking that way.

As for the Hawaii 5-0 excuses that it doing well so CBS won't fire him from Trek is BS. It a freaking different contract so even if he did get fired from Trek it would not affect Hawaii 5-0 unless Kurtzman got all pissy and said he "taking his toys to play somewhere else". He won't be taking Hawaii 5-0 as that is a CBS IP and not Secret Hideout.

So let look at Kurtzman involmeant with Trek while working for CBS. He was brought on to take over from Bryan Fuller when Fuller was fired. Kurtzman brought on Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts to be the show runners for STD.
Season 1 of STD did not go down to well with the majority of Trek fans.

Around this time last year it was announced that Les Moonves has struck a deal with Kurtzman for five years to oversee Trek. (Remember Moonves his known to Hate Trek and Scifi with a passion and was responsible for cancelling Enterprise and rejecting all pitch's for Trek, until 2007 when he did the deal with Paramount and Bad Robot.)

Due to the reaction of Fans to Season 1, Kurtzman states that by the end of season 2 everything will make sense and line up with the Prime Universe. Note here he did not say cannon.
Season 2 goes into production and after five episode they have spent their entire budget for the season. Test Screening of these episode does not go down well and the majority have to be reshoot. CBS and Netflix refuse to pay for the reshoot and Bad Robot steps in to pay for them. Short after the word leaked out that these episode where being reshoot, it is announced that Gretchen J. Berg & Aaron Harberts have been fired full bullying and attacking the writers of the show.

Kurtzman step in to oversee the show and becomes it main show-runner. Due to the former show-runners blowing the budget for season 2. Kurtzman came up with the idea of creating Short Trek's and selling them to the international market. The Short Treks where to use sets that where already built and the film crew working on STD. When it came time to sell them, no one would pay the asking price and the prince was dropped repeatedly. Until Space in Canada bought them for $15 million but Netflix did not. The rest of the funding to get season 2 finished is said to come form Secret Hideout and Bad Robot.
In August of last year at the Star Trek Las Vegas con it was announced that Sir Patrick Stewart will return to play Picard is a new show. The fandom was hypoid about the news but also worried that Kutzman will be running it. We also got new that their will be a Section 31 shows that will come after season 3 of STD plus  two new Animations show. One will be adult based and shown on CBSAA and the other shown on Nickelodeon.

Between Star Trek Las Vegas and the start of Season 2 airing, CBS announce that they have placed (I can't remember the name or find the article now) in charge of overseeing all of Star Trek Merchandising. This person works directly for CBS and not Alex Kurtzman. Merchandising is something that fall under Kurtzman five year deal.

Season 2 of STD start to air, as a gift to Netflix. They are given the Short Trek episode they refused to pay and they quickly hide them away under Trailers and other tap for STD. The first two episode air and fans are in agreement that they are an improvement but still not trek.
As the Season goes on fans hope of a improved show and it moving toward something that is recognisable as Trek and get closer to Cannon fade away.
Halfway though season 2 Michelle Paradise is brought on by CBS to co-show-runner the rest of season 2 with Kurtzman. Taking a little bit more of his power away.
Before season 2 end it announced that STD will get a Season 3 but no air date.
Season 2 ends and the final episode it considered to be the worst trek episode to date along with the rest of the season. Fans are not happy that the issues that where promise by Kurtzman to be fixed and brought back inline with TOS where not.

Shortly afterward CBS bring in Netflix and it Merchandising partners to show what they have planned for Picard. It does not go well and it is rejected, CBS is told to bring the show more inline with Cannon. All work on Picard is halted while this is done. (a little to late as their is not much time until filming is to start.) After a few changes Netflix and it Merchandising partners are brought back in to be shown the changes. They are still not happy and are unwilling to sign on and CBS are told more still needs to be done. Kurtzman is said not to happy and is unwilling to make anymore changes.
Filming on the Picard series starts two weeks behind schedule. shortly afterwards it is announces that Netflix will not be showing Picard and it is going to Amazon Prime, it also relived that the budget for Picard has been cut from $400 Million to just over $100 Million.
STD season 3 which should have gone into production and start filming to be realised for an end of 2019 or begging 2020 has not and hasn't even been given a budget, which has left it in limbo along with the Section 31 spin-off which has not yet been given the green light by CBS even for a pilot.

That bring us up to the current rumours.

If everything was going well for Kurtzman, then all the stories of problems behind the scene would not have been coming out. You would see STD Merch everywhere. Which their is none even on the internet. The two live action shows would not have had their budget cut. STD season 3 would have been in production along with the Picard Series.
Fans would have taken to STD instead of reject it and would not be worried about the Picard Show. Netflix, would never have walked away from Picard as they would not want a reveal steaming Service to show it. (Netflix shows all Trek shows in Europe and Amazon Prime does not. I would not be surprised if this was the case in the rest of the world outside North America.) CBS would be making money from Kurtzman tenure in charge of Trek instead of losing money.

This is where is comes down too. Forget what fans want to see. It money and that what talks. With Kurtzman, CBS has lost a lot of it money and it not a small amount. It the sort that can break a career to an end and the person in Charge would never be given that sort of power again in Hollywood, let alone the rest of the film industry with the amount the Kurtzman is losing on Trek.

Like I said at the start, Hawaii 5-0 maybe doing well but it got nothing to do with Kurtzmans Star Trek contract. If he is not performing well and losing a tone of money. CBS are not going to keep him, they will pay him off send him back to Hawaii 5-0 and bring in someone else that can right the Trek ship, stop production going over budget and start being in the profits.

If he's been fired, why is he announcing more Star Trek coming out?

https://www.cbr.com/star-trek-more-short-treks/

Kind of weird, if he's no longer working on Star Trek.

That old news, it was announced towards the end of season 2.
I even posted it in the old thread before the site crashed.

You'll see a lot of old news being reword since the rumour of him being pulled of trek coming out.
Two days after it was rumours a article came out with Kurtzman five year plan for trek.

The man has had lots of plans for Amazing Spider-man which went nowhere.
He had plans for Universals Dark Universe which went nowhere.
So don't expect his five year plan for trek to go anywhere.

CBS must have taken note with the cry of joy from the fandom that Kurtzman is rumoured to be gone.

with these news stories that are not telling anything new. CBS is trying hide it so they don't look bad to inventors. Like I said money talks and if Kurtzman has gone, they would have buy him out. Which doesn't look good to investors. But then with the state of Trek is at the moment that doesn't look good either.
CBS is in a lose, lose situation at present.

more than likely they have him on some fault or breech. It is how they work find a legal reason to break the contract, and offer a buy out. Likely his poor performance and issues with the show and budget issues could be enough that CBS is not going to have to pay him a cent if they break the contract. I really doubt anyone in the seat of $$$$ will sign into a contract where there isn't a technical out they can leverage.

and yes I keep seeing 6 to 9 month old news being rebranded as new breaking news on all of these stupid blogs. Last I heard STD s3 is going to be just those short treks, like 12 of them from 3~14min long. Personally I think STD is done and baked. Where they left it was a closer. It left no threads open. best to to let the dumpster fire burn itself out than toss more into it.

It is like OOOOPin all over again. GOD that and the WB both fails full of wtf programming. Yeah upn had trek but heh some of the other things it had back then were hah. WB less I say the better.

Clearly none of these studios do any sort of target audience surveys or think the audience is a specific range which is the wrong one. Almost everything I hated about jj trek was ported to STD and made worse.

One thing absolutely one thing I wish they would fucking dump TIMETRAVEL and ALT universes. Fuck all with that shit over and over ENT JJTREK and STD all fucking time shit and all 1950s time travel tropes.

I'd dump the whole thing. It's clear that CBS has no frakking clue how to make Star Trek and most of the people who know/knew have passed on or moved on to other things. (IE: The Orville) Just let it go. Either sell off the property to someone who knows what to do with it or sit on it for a number of years until someone who has their head on straight can do a better job. Kill CBSAA too.

I agree, no time travel or alternate universes. The original mirror universe was OK. Mirror, Mirror is a lot of fun. The DS9 episodes were just "meh," but they did some cool stuff with it in the comics. And, the Enterprise episodes that were there were sweet. But, the rest are rubbish. Time travel never works and they don't even do it correctly on Star Trek.

But, I digress. I do still want to see Discovery season 2, though, just to see how it is.

cardnal rules of time tropes.
touching oneself = end of universe
go back and fix it (the bill and ted paradox)
screwing up the timeline and others knowing about it
magic wave of time resetting and wiping peoples memories of the now erased timeline. (see legends for this fuckup they do it every ep)
Time is malleable and you can return to your timeline after fucking up the past.

Truths of what is known about time now.
You cannot travel back into your own timeline. If backwards travel exists it would diverge once you arrive meaning a split in time and your future is lost to you forever.
Travel into the future is possible, we do it when we get into anything moving. We do it on the planet. It is relative.

I cannot think of any ep in trek history that did time travel right. Even to the old way of thinking about time prior to all the multiverse and string shit.

Mirror was more than a alt universe it is a negative universe. This idea lost itself somewhere in the DS9 eps I think. ENT returned to it and that branched into some fun books.
The alt universes made by anything after ENT and even posutlated that ENT was, is something entirely different.

OK ST9 did do the time thing right. Spock was in a past that is not his own anymore. He is stuck there now. So ok that one was done right except the red shit and the redshit blackholes and the FUCKING GOD DAMNED GALAXY destroying fucking Super Novae. RAGE. Read some grade school science books you morons! Sheesh. Least they coulda called it a giganova and locate it near Romulus. I mean a sun getting fing old will tell you over a span of thousands of years. Also any sun able to support life cannot go giganova or even supernova, it'll just bloat up into a red giant over millions of years.

Anyhow. lol

STD s2 is ok, it is just a broken faf and worst of it is blatant bad science events. Think of something a jr high kid would write. Or someone who knows shit nothing about space time and distances in space and the limits of lightspeed.
Just enjoy the enterprise interiors whenever they show them. Rest if it could be left to rot.


Oh yeah anyone hear there is a clone wars season 7 apparently. Only 12 eps but gonna get something. Watched Solo again last night for the heck of it and I had forgotten how much of clonewars and rebels is in it. I did read that a lot of the stories were based on books etc.

Yeah, they always act like you can travel back in time, screw things up, fix it and return to your future. Nope. Like you said, your very arrival creates an alternate reality. Also, they always try to prevent changes to the timeline when they go back, but they always change things. Even just by interacting with a person they're changing things. That person they interact with would have done something else otherwise. Eating food depletes the food supply more than it would have been otherwise. Then each of those minor changes has a ripple effect.

Take the classic episode "City on the Edge of Tomorrow." McCoy goes back in time and prevents a social worker from being killed, so to return time to normal they have to let her die. Well, sorry, but you're not fixing that and fixing the timeline entirely. Kirk, McCoy and Spock are all back in time. Spock nerve pinches a cop to get out of trouble after stealing some clothes. That cop would have been elsewhere originally, he may have even prevented a robbery, or helped a citizen who needed assistance with something. But, he was passed out. Plus, he'd have to have gone back and reported his encounter with those two, which also would have altered what he was doing that day. Then there's the food they eat, that was during the Great Depression when people needed a helping hand. There was less to go around due to their presence. And, let's not forget the bum that phasered himself. That whole episode is a mess of changes to that timeline that they supposedly "fixed" by fixing the "major" mistake. ::)

And, don't even get me started on "Tomorrow is Yesterday." Beaming people into their own bodies to make them forget what they saw. ::) And, they were still making mistakes like that in the TNG era. In "First Contact," they gave Zefram Cochrane and Lily Sloane knowledge of the future. The Borg also didn't help matters by killing people and destroying structures and other objects. Zefram even later gave a commencement address where he mentioned that encounter with the Borg, but people just said it was because he was a drunk. Though, I've been asserting for years that Enterprise was in an alternate reality, but many people won't have it.

So, yeah. There are so many little changes that they ignore when they "fix" them interfering with history. It's not good science and really should be left out of Star Trek.

Sorry, I was tired and had your meaning of alternate realities and parallel universes mixed up. Obviously, two different things.

Yeah, I heard they were doing Clone Wars season 7 a while back. It's going to be on Disney's streaming service, I think.

Also a old (well it is coming back in some other ways) proper thinking is Like Scotty in st4, "how do you know he didnna invent the thing" This is the old pre-destiny thing and so many loath it they do what they can to make it seem like they have free choice. IE whatever you do in the past things will work out as history records or how it was to happen in the past. Like the grandfather paradox you go back to kill him but something will always stop you from doing so. I think VOY touched on this some with that idiot in the time ship making alterations to bring back his daughter or wife.

And yeah that whole beam him back thing was a wtf even when I first saw it as a kid. It probably made no sense to many people over the years. :D


Yeah I only found it when I watched solo and remembered how much was tied to clone wars and had to look up darth maul to see if or how he died etc to place solo in other events. I saw there was a 6th season and the series was dated up to 2019 &2020 depending on source. I guess it was originally suppose to air in 2019 but it looks to have been pushed to 2020. It is probably those unfinished eps they couldn't finish when the show got axed. And yeah suck is another branch stream service.

Yeah, "predestination paradox." Basically, you go back in time and your interaction is what makes things happen as they're supposed to. The Terminator is major offender for that one. Not only was Skynet a product of time travel, but so was John Connor. ::)

I heard the Clone Wars season 7 will be on Netflix outside of the States.
My son grew up on that show and loved it. Season 6 never made it to this side of the pound though. But it was on Netflix in the States. If Netflix does show it here. I hope they also put up the movie and the rest of the seasons.


Getting back to Trek and going on the assumption that Kurtzman is gone. CBS still has the issue of the licence. Is it Part of the Bad Robot licence? or a Separate Licence with Kurtzman?
If it the licence with Bad Robot, not a major issue as it is rumoured to be coming to an end on the 19th of July. Which would mean they can correct Picard and bring it inline with Cannon, but it unlikely to happen to get it out at the end of 2019.

If the Licence is with Kurtzman/ Secret Hideout, that would mean that even though Kurtzman is gone any trek made in the next three years would be under this licence. (I am sure CBS would have a legal way to get out of it, but it mostly likely to late for the Picard series.)

I would have to agree with you guys, it would be best to wait until these licence issues are sorted. CBS and Paramount have remerged and everything is under one roof. That does not mean that they stop all work on Trek. During this time they can start to develop ideas, put a team together that knows trek and writers that can write Sci-fi.
Once the licencing issue have all been sorted, they can come out hitting the ground running and have a show out in not time. But that not going to happen.


As Trek stand at the moment, everything is pinned on Picard, if it Successful, your going to see season 3 of STD, the Two animated Trek show and the Short Treks. But if it not don't expect to see them as CBS will not put up the money for failure.

One last thing and I guarantee you this will happen. Due to the interest of the Picard, CBSAA will have a major rise in Subscriptions and the first two episode will do very well. There will be lots of stories saying that Picard is a Success. Now if the show good, then Good. But if it bad, then it will take a little longer for CBS to know. view count will drop along with subscriptions for CBSAA, but Secret Hideout will continue to say the show is a success.

problem is there is nothing saying that CBS will hire anyone better than what we already have had. They knew what influence he had on jjtrek and what opinions were on that and still went forward. Really they as in the fat wallets are super out of touch with anything.

Quote from: Freak on Jun 25, 2019, 07:04 amOne last thing and I guarantee you this will happen. Due to the interest of the Picard, CBSAA will have a major rise in free trial Subscriptions

Fixed that for you. ;)

(no, I didn't actually edit your post, I can't and wouldn't if I could)

yeah I bet these sites get a huge jump in 30day or free trail things once a series ends, and those people marathon the eps then cancel.

I plan to do a free trial of CBSAA some weekend (not this one, other stuff to do) and binge Disco S2.

Quote from: MadKoifish on Jun 25, 2019, 09:09 amproblem is there is nothing saying that CBS will hire anyone better than what we already have had. They knew what influence he had on jjtrek and what opinions were on that and still went forward. Really they as in the fat wallets are super out of touch with anything.

Did they take him on or where they where force, and is this why Fuller was fired?

We don't know what the contract was between CBS and Paramount/ Bad Robot is and it unlikely we ever will.
But going off what Robert Mayer Burnett has said and other information that is out there. It more likely they where forced.

Below is my speculation on what happened, taken from the information that is out there.

From what I seen there is a non-compete clause in the CBS and Paramount/ Bad Robot contract. What this mean is that CBS could not make a TV show for ten years after the first JJ film came out, unless it is part of what Bad Robot was doing. (Robert Mayer Burnett has said this is mostly likely the case and JJ would have been stupid not to do it. The man might be a crap film maker, but he is a freaking genius business man.)
JJ even stated that he was looking into doing a TV show after a few films, so it must be part of the deal.
When CBS made this contract they had no interest in making another Trek show again. (Les Moonves influence here.)

Fast forward to the mid teens and steaming has become a major thing and all the Hollywood studios want to get into the action. For CBS steaming service they need something to lunch CBSAA with and they look at what they own.
What their biggest property? Star Trek.
So Bryan Fuller is brought on to create a new Trek show, CBS announces that they will be lunching CBSAA with the new Trek show. As it before 2019 Bad Robot turns around to CBS and informs them that they will be in breach of contact if this airs before the ten year non-compete deadline is up. CBS want CBSAA to go live before then so agree to make it under the Bad Robot contact and Kurtzman comes over and starts making changes. Fuller start to have creative difference over the changes and is fired and we get Kurtzman running the show. But due to the change to the show to being it inline with the Bad Robot contract STD is not ready in time for the launch of CBSAA.

Teaser trailer for Picard is up:

Thanks, Angry White Woman!  yeah, I think I saw the trailer it the day it came out.  The fact that this show takes place in the JJ'verse makes me less interested.

So, guess that the largest rescue in history is the Romulan planets.  What went wrong with it that Picard quit?  I guess we'll find out.

is this the same one that came out last month? useless talk over various revealing shots. Cant see shit in the post could be as I disabled java as the youturd cant show java thing cause it to load up all the java crap and leaves it running.

ok yup old video from last month.


Looks like the new short treks started shooting at the end of may.

QuoteBut we are definitely seeing just metric proof that the fan base is growing, and it's growing younger -- and yet, we're keeping our current fans, and that's great.

uh thats just opinion. . . lol most old farts I know have lost interest or quit watching.

Yeah not seeing anything new.

Can't see that teaser as it is a CBSAA, so region locked. What the Freaking point of that, it the same freaking trailer that Amazon Prime upload and a bunch of other youtube channels. Freaking Morons!!

Dan, Yeah I saw this morning that the first of the Short Treks have started filming.
This one will be about Number 1 played Rebecca Romijn and Spock. But there is no Pike. I guess the rumour of Anson Mount hitting a director is true. They did not fire him at the time because it would have given them a major headache with finishing of the season. So once he finished his filming on the season they terminated his contact. If that include to do Short Treks, it would explain why he is not going back. (I heard it was the director of the episode in production at the time that he hit, but Kurtzman. Is it wrong I want that to be true.)

He going of Metric? Jesus the guy a freaking idiot. That Metric data just capture when STD is mention. So if there are a bunch of Videos on Youtube with STD in the title and they rip into STD. The Metric data captures it, it does not say if it positive or negative towards STD.

"keeping our current fans" dude is really living under a rock. Most have stopped watching and those that have not seen it won't because it behind a pay wall and word of month has just put them off.

As for a Younger Generation coming in. Go to any Secondary School and ask. 99% of them will turn around and say they have never heard of it. Hell these kids will also say they never hear of the Beatles, Queen or David Bowe.
If you ask the "Nerds and Geeks" of secondary high school if they know of it. You might get a 50/50 response. These are the people more likely to know about it, but as to weather they like it. I am going to go with not, they tend to be intelligent people so the flash and band of the JJ films might be enjoyable but they crave the though provoking aspect of Cannon Trek.

I can actually believe everything about that, as it was worded just right. The fan base getting younger just means more kids are liking what they're doing. IE: people too young to remember the older shows. And, they're keeping their fans probably just means that people who like Discovery are sticking with them.

So, yeah, carefully worded.

Nerdrotic has posted a new Video on his channel taking a look at Kurtzman "five year plan" that was posted on Deadline and if their is any new information in it that has not already been reported on months ago. That came out a few days after he announced that his Insider has informed him that Kurtzman had been removed from Trek.

Stick around to the end. The Host of the Deadline Vblog asks Kirtzman if he will direct another episode.
Nerdrotic response to his answer is just hilarious.

Check out the Video below, you'll enjoy it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNgmFMaLHLc

I have taken a look at the Deadline Video and their is no new information.
This was Kurtzman chance to get new information out like.

These two new Animations what time period will they be set? Pre TOS, TOS, TPM, TPM-TNG era, TNG-VOY era or Post Nemesis?
When is STD going into production and when is it planned to come out?
When will the Short Trek episodes coming out and who will realised them international? Before Picard or after?
(Given the news that the first of the Short Trek's have gone into production and it is related to season 2 of STD, I think it Netflix, though I doubt they will pay for them as they didn't for the last lot.)

I think they mean anyone under 30. Not kids. They want that 15~30yr age group so all those who cannot concentrate for more than 10min. Those who would prefer a tv show is 10 to 5min long. Like how youturd twits whine about videos being more than 5min long as tedious etc.

They want pandering ass-kissers like those you find on trekmovie comments section.

Yeah CBS really need that age group to start watching as what they are showing at the moment does not interest them.
Their programs really attract the 30+ age groups or even older.

Quote from: MadKoifish on Jun 27, 2019, 09:14 amI think they mean anyone under 30. Not kids. They want that 15~30yr age group so all those who cannot concentrate for more than 10min. Those who would prefer a tv show is 10 to 5min long. Like how youturd twits whine about videos being more than 5min long as tedious etc.

They want pandering ass-kissers like those you find on trekmovie comments section.

Yeah, those are the ones they want. The ones with no attention span. A lot of Sci-Fi these days is geared towards them. Much of it has little to no plot or character development and lots of frantic action and special effects. That way they don't miss anything important while tweeting but can look up from their phone when something "cool" happens.

Okay if there was any doubt that Kurtzman is on his way out, even after the interview with him on his "five year plan" (which has no new information in it as it was all stuff we have heard before.) was realised after the rumour of him being fired came out.

Yesterday it was announced that Michael Chabon will be the showrunner for the Picard Series.
Now I know some of you are going to say, that does not mean Kurtzman is out. But think about it, when Picard was announced CBS never stated who the showrunner would be and that Kurtzman was overseeing everything. This implied that he was the showrunner.
It is very unusual for a studio to announce the showrunner of a new show when they are halfway though filming it and it not even airing yet. If you look at other TV shows where this has happened it has been due to problems with the show and the studio has decide the original showrunner is not up to the task, and they bring in someone to replace them. In most cases everything done up to that point which it normal the pilot or the first two episodes, would be scrapped and redone with the air date pushed back to make the corrections need, or the season episode order will be cut to make sure that the budget does not go over due to reshoots.

Michael Chabon is best know on Trek for writing the Short Trek Episode "Calypso." This was the best of the Short Trek episodes, problem with it, with the exception of a Shooting Star in deep space was that it really was not a Star Trek story. If you removed the setting of Discovery, this story could have taken place anywhere even in Star Wars.
It was just a generic Sci-fi story with no links except for the ship to Trek.

You can read the announcement here (https://deadline.com/2019/06/michael-chabon-showrunner-star-trek-picard-cbs-all-access-series-1202638580/).

Has there been any absolutely irrefutable statements from official sources that Picard will in fact be in the Discovery verse vs. original canon? Or is that all just assumption and speculation?

Quote from: Angry White Woman on Jun 29, 2019, 09:05 pmHas there been any absolutely irrefutable statements from official sources that Picard will in fact be in the Discovery verse vs. original canon? Or is that all just assumption and speculation?

Assumption and speculation.

It is tied into the events leading up to the kelvin films. For me the whole bad science part of that premise just crawls under my skin. So yes from the horses mouth (kurtzman) anything from the jj run up to the actual kelvin timeline is considered main timeline canon and is where Picard is picking up.
quick google for articles ignoring the fucking youturd shills.
https://redshirtsalwaysdie.com/2019/01/12/star-trek-picard-prime-timeline-series/

The whole idea of a supernovae threatening a galaxy not to mention a race being unaware of events that take thousands of years to occur is ridiculous. Suns exp yellow mainstars do not just go POP.

oh to note if not known Chabon was writing for the series as far back as nov 18

I may dislike braga and everyone bags on berman but they I doubt ever did anything near as much to displease older fans. They might have played in the universe but rarely have events within affected it in a entirety. Even DS9 when it was over everything was still there. These guys think nothing of eliminating or obliterating races or entire systems.

The general assumption is that, since it's produced by Secret Hideout, it's part of some license deal Paramount and Bad Robot had to produce movies. However, Secret Hideout is and always was working with CBS and was producing TV, so that doesn't even make sense. Discovery was supposed to be the original Star Trek universe and was supposed to sync to original Trek canon, but it never did.

However, as MKF said, the series is following the destruction of Romulus that was laid out in Star Trek (2009.) That is making people assume that it's in that universe, but the Kelvin universe and the Discovery universe are totally separate. Also, there's nothing that says CBS can't make the destruction of Romulus canon to the original Star Trek universe. They could bring the whole thing into the fold and, as MKF also said, have only the parts of the 2009 onward movies that take place after the destruction of the Kelvin be a separate universe. They could decide everything goes together, ignoring the evidence to the contrary. After all, they own the property.

So, yeah, assumption and speculation.

Yeah it all assumption and speculation, but that due to this big freaking licensing deal between CBS and Paramount\Bad Robot.

The following is assumption and speculation, but given the information out there. I think it is mostly like 90% true.

So let think like JJ for a moment. Paramount has come to him to make a new Star Trek film, along with Paramount you sit down with CBS to make a deal so this can come about. Now JJ being a busniness man what to get the profits from any Mechandise from the film he makes. (after all he trying to do what Lucas did with the Star Wars Mechandise.) CBS agree, but states that whatever they do has to be 25% from what has come before. JJ agrees but put in a non compete clause for 10 years from when JJ film come out and he also has the option to make a TV shows. As CBS has no intrest in make any Trek they agree and the contracts are signed. (This was all done back in 2007 and as we all know JJ first Trek film came out in 2009, which means that CBS is unable to air a new Trek Series until 2019.)

Fast forward 8 years, and steaming services have kicked off in a big way CBS wants to get in on it and announces they will be lunching CBSAA. They need a new show for the service that will bring in people to sign up. They look at their portfolio and see Star Trek is a big money maker and has a large fan base, so Les Moonves mostly hating this but not having another chose greenlights it. Bryan Fuller is brought on and start creating his show. After awhile CBS announces that they will making a new Star Trek Series with Fuller running the show.

As we are only half way though CBS/Bad Robot non compete clause. JJ turns around say "Les, Baby! You make that Trek show without us your going to be in breach of contract and I'll sue your ass off." So Moonves ask JJ what he want to do. JJ goes, "Well Alex is one of my peep and secret hideout is already making cop shows for you, put him on it. But Les it has to be under my Licence, so any Muerch profits come to me!" Moonves not having any choice as he want the subscriptions agrees. Kurtzman and Moonves goes to see Fuller to let him know what happening. Fuller is pissed at these changes and refused to make them. Moonves then fires him and turns to Kurtzman information him, he has so long to get this show out.
As Kurtzman is not able to start fresh, he has to use what Fuller was planning but change it to suit the licence that Bad Robot has.

Now is that true or not, I don't know but given the information out their it seem highly likely.
If you go back and watch old interviews with Kurtzman he never states the show is part of Cannon but does state it part of the Prime timeline.

This has created a Fan theory that the Prime timeline is like the Mirror Universe. It's just an Alt reality but closer to what we saw in TOS to Nemesis. So when Romulus was destroyed stupidity, this never happened in the timeline that we know as Cannon. Romulan Star Empire is still there because they have people that can see when a Star is going to go supernova.
As the star was not stopped going supernova in the Prime timeline it is the Spock of this timeline that has gone back in time and created the Kelvin Timeline.
When you think about it make sense as the Jelly Fish ship and Narada do not look like anything from the Cannon Timeline.

Ahead of Comic-Con, the team behind Star Trek: Picard has revealed a poster:

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/wire-buzz-star-trek-picard-reveals-key-art-star-wars-reveals-new-sith-trooper-more

We now officially know more about the show than before. We know Picard has a dog. I'm blown away by this knowledge. :P

Quote from: scifidude79 on Jul 11, 2019, 12:18 amWe now officially know more about the show than before. We know Picard has a dog. I'm blown away by this knowledge. :P

LOL!  Nicely put.

Sith Storm trooper, uh that sounds a bit dumb.
Hope that is a lumpy lab with bent ears vs a stafford with cut ears.

Ok looking like a bull mastiff or the like. Still means cut ears unless Picard practices bull baiting there is no reason for it except owners desire for the "look" I would think the producers would be more aware about how not PC that is. But I guess they are too uptight about LBGTABCDZF or vegan tropes than to be aware about such things.

To be honest, I didn't even look at the part with the red Stormtrooper. It didn't look good.

What I want to know is who are they trying to market this too? Old fan, trying to bring in new fans?
I don't have a freaking clue.

Let break down this poster.

(https://media.comicbook.com/2019/07/star-trek-picard-1178143.jpeg?auto=webp&width=960&height=1200&crop=960:1200,smart)

Lets start off with the Title, Star Trek: Picard, It tell me nothing except the show is based around Picard.
What up with them constantly using the font from TOS on everything now since Star Trek 09. Even STD uses it.
Yet with TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and the movies all had their own font to stand out from each other. So using the same font as TOS just make it confusing. (I know why they are doing it, they want everything to do with Trek have the same font like Wars. But Trek has already established different front for different shows and it in the mind of Pop Culture, not something that can be easily changed.)

What is with the warm colours, makes the vineyard look to be in a hot and dry climate near to the equator than in France.

Why is this picture in a Vineyard. If your not a star Trek fan it mean nothing to you and tell you nothing about the show. Also again why use the Vineyard, it was only seen twice, the first time was straight after the Battle of Sol and Picard needed to recovery from being Loctus. It was his lowest point in his life and was even thing of leaving Starfleet. He only went there to be with his family.
The next time we see the Vineyard was again at a low point in Picard life and in an Alt future created by Q where he has space alzimers. I guess as Beverly had left him, he went back to be with his Brother and family to help look after him. Again that was an Alt timeline as we know in Generations that his Brother and Nephew died in a fire, so their is now no reason for him to go back to the Picard family home. We also know form Generations onward Picard biggest regret is not starting a family and we see in the following movies this storyline continue where he is thinking about settling down and starting one but stay with Starfleet.

So If Picard has left Starfleet in this show, that would be one of his main goals to do and not go back to the family home. Also his second love after Starfleet is archaeology. He would start doing that instead of going home to make wine.

Why does he have a dog, Picard never been a pet lover except for his fish. Also if he has lost faith in Starfleet like they keep telling us. Why would he put the Starfleet Delta on it collar? Because he called it Number 1? (Trek Core has a close up picture showing this.) Also just to make the show dark and edgy you know they are going to John Wick the Dog.

Finally why is there a freaking Planet in the Sky? Last time I looked out the window there was not one and no one has found a Rouge Planet heading toward our system. (Something that would have been discovered long ago in Trek if there was one.)

As a non Trek fan this poster is just confusing and as a Star Trek fan it just sending all the wrong messages.

check out Robert Meyer Burnett Video on it, he makes a good point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9qqx0FEpGg&t=2656s

The Star Trek: Discovery font is different than the TOS font:

(https://evilgenius180.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/6a0faf02-08fa-41b3-a51c-8e821967cbf6.jpeg)

Honestly, the poster does nothing for me, hence my sarcasm about the dog.

Also, the vineyard may not be on Earth. That settles a number of the questions you raised. Hell, it could even be a Holodeck simulation.

Dog is is Klingon equivalent of a ratty drooling TARG. Hell mastiffs drool like crazy. It will be on the bridge to growl at the evil alien of the week.
It is all tropes, trope of the french farmer with his dog drinking his wine and eating cheese.

They seem to be billing Picard as a sequel to Star Trek The Next Gen so I'm still holding out hope it'll be in the prime universe vs. the Space Herpes one...

Whatever universe it's in, it's sure to piss people off. I mean, it's essentially the people who have been producing Star Trek the past few years. And, it's going to feature a "broken" Picard, so it's not likely to be what TNG fans are looking for. While Picard had his vulnerable moments, he was always portrayed as the strong and capable captain. This is looking like it's not going to be anything like that.

I'm personally waiting for a real trailer, which hopefully will be coming at Comic-Con.

As  said it is not proper TNG era unless you count all that comics BS and other external story made for 09 trek. So all events that took place in those comics is considered canon for PICARD.

Found some beta stuff about how the supernova was a neighboring star, etc and other blather about it that makes it less STUPID than it seems as seeing the film alone without all this extra crap.

Things to expect

stupid space time fuckups
bad science
windows on command decks instead of holographic viewers
people acting like tards or going stupid because the story needs it (think of that security officer in STD)
(oh man the bullet code on this forum sucks)

Yeah, Landry was stupid. (Disco security officer in first couple regular episodes) It was stupidity that killed her, not the tardigrade. Her stupidity and unlikable personality were in place so that Tyler/Voq would be universally accepted as a better character. You were supposed to be happy she died and was quickly replaced.

It's not exactly Star Trek, but it's been announced that The Orville will be moving from Fox to Hulu for Season 3. Just for those people who are interested. I need to get back on Hulu. Not just for that, but for other things too.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Jul 20, 2019, 10:33 pmIt's not exactly Star Trek, but it's been announced that The Orville will be moving from Fox to Hulu for Season 3. Just for those people who are interested. I need to get back on Hulu. Not just for that, but for other things too.

The Orville really gets the Star Trek: The Next Generation vibe.

Oh, and the Picard SDCC trailer is out. The video is on this page:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8806524/

(anyone else who wants to post the video directly from YouTurd can, I've explained more than once why I won't do so)

It actually looks pretty good. I will, of course, reserve judgment until I see it. It looks like we have Jeri Ryan and Brent Spiner involved, which is always good. It also appears that the event that "haunts" Picard is actually the end of Nemesis, where Data beamed Picard back to the Enterprise and sacrificed himself, as opposed to anything to do with the destruction of Romulus. You can definitely tell some of the props and whatnot were produced more cheaply, great examples are Data's eyes and Seven's implants. They don't quite look as good as what they had in the 1990s. But, as long as the story is good, none of that matters.

Also, the vineyard is clearly in France. That poster with planets in the sky was just that; a poster. Go figure. The imagery probably is supposed to represent Picard's past, present and future all rolled into one. His past and future are both in the stars, traveling to other worlds, while his present is the vineyard. Posters are meant to grab your attention, not to represent realistic imagery from a movie or show.

I was going to post the video, but you beat me to it!

I have also heard the Jonathan Frakes & Marina Sirtis have been called in to make Cameo's.
Since Michael Chabon has been made showrunner, rumour has it their have been lots of re-shoots happening. This is where the Frakes, Sirties, Spiner & Ryan Cameo's come in. Also one of the reason why 7 Implant looks like crap in the trailer. They did not have time to make a decent one as they sold off the original.

Rumour also has it that the other TNG cast might make an appearance. If that is true how will they do Worf? They have already shown the STD Klingons in the background of Picard and Worf look does not fit with that and fans would not accept it that updated his look to that that of these Klingorks.

Also Picard is not coming out this year and been push back to early 2020.

Footage of lower decks also dropped but I can't find anything yet onit (only been up a few hours.)


As for all this Trek News what will they anoucne at Trek Vegus next week? I feel sorry for those that have paid for that. It costs double what SDCC does and CBS has dropped all the major news there. Ouch!!

eugh lol using old warehouse buildings in la. lol dunno as good as it looks it reaks of Kelvin uni, but Data in a drawer might mean that is it NOT following the JJ canon from the comics or the lead up to the 09 film. The kungfu vulcan/romulan w/e though that was bad. (given the romulan's here are TOS like)

Dunno might watch, like what they did with the borg but well what is the BoRG but a greebfest anyhow. Fat jaw, erm dunno, using dreary modern day buildings, ehhh. Kinda feels like that badly disguised fight room from Agents of Shield being used as a cargo ship interior. lol. Though lest it wasn't a brewery.

Seven's implant I would have expected they would have followed much of the books and had slowly divorced her of external implants.

AND damn Patric's voice has gotten old, from the last time I saw him in something.

Lower Decks stuff in this video, likely locked to a region or whatever. Having issues with yt on this system anyhow. All I have to say is Not impressed, canned network cartoon art. It is exactly what I expected of it. Simpsons in space or whatever pointless American animation you can slot in.

The interview just says to me meh.

ok was gonna cap each instance but this group shot says it all. . . . likely wont be watching that.
(https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/lrdeks-01.png)

(https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/lrdeks-02.png)

SDCC least you have other things going on to do in San Diego, vegas is a shithole full of ghettos and eugh. Go google street drive the town outside of the strip. It is where all the people pushed out from the gentrification of San Jose, SF, LA, Palo Alto etc ended up. Also I think attendance for the prior is much larger and add in This weekend was the 50th for the moon landings and they are cashing in on that though the hype of documentaries etc seem to have missed the millennial crowd as I see little to noting about it. Probably just us old fuckers who care about that sort of thing anymore.

Ripped the 720 off Yturd but slowly going through I only see Romulans, even on the borg ship what could be a Klingon I think is just a bulky romulan. more I think about it I think these 09 like romulans are more inline with a "offshoot" of vulcan vs the tng appliance heads.

(https://madkoifish.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/stpicard-sdcc-trailer-01.png)

Looks like this is a freed Borg collective and it looks to be stirring up issues.

Guessing the hue references are coming from the guy on the table that appears for 5 frames?

and damn they still sell those old Bodum shot glasses? lol. Got a set of those back in the 90s for espresso lol

Bit of ftopic but I think I am far more excited about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRz6Hfjelo
The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance
than anything trek lately. aug30th in the US I think. Shouldnt be region locked as it is netflix only.

Awe, c'mon, you have to love the "This Facility Has Gone 5843 Days Without an Assimilation" sign. ;) It's so good, they have it in more than one language.

I suspect they have Seven with implants just so fans will go "Oh look, it's Seven of Nine" as opposed to "Oh look, Jeri Ryan is playing a part."

The Lower Decks thing I won't comment on. It's obviously for kids and, thus, not something I'm likely to be interested in. Plus, I'm not overly fond of look of the Cartoon Network style of characters. That goes for any characters, not just Star Trek.

AFAIK Lower Decks IS the adult cartoon. I forget if it was 2 or 3 animated things, then again who knows with how inconsistent CBS is.

Yeah, I see that it is. The characters still look like CN characters to me. But, it is supposed to be a comedy. I do like some comedy in Star Trek, (The Voyage Home had just the right amount of comedy for me) but I never wanted a Star Trek show that's a comedy. It's by the guy who writes Rick and Morty, which never looked good to me. But, I'll probably give it a shot. My expectations will be low, though, and I can always stop watching if I don't like it.

Watched killjoys s5? e1 last night, this is probably where they should go with humor. Screwy stuff not right up slapstick.

but yeah just judging it by the art and the really badly given character descriptions given in that interview as I was skipping through it. It sounded way too much like the unwashed nerd going an about his brilliant x-over story that is nothing but a 5yr old's sperg dream.

I might be good dunno, just not sure this is where trek should go. It stinks like all those fantasy themed cop shows and scifi themed cop shows from the 90s~2010s IE it adds nothing or does nothing new.

The nickelodeon one I do not think has been mentioned for ages.

Also those hoping bad robot and JJ will go away, he is mentioned as well as the company repeatedly in recent interviews with Tarantino and his plans for a film. Some ways the quotes of JJ say "look I fucqed trek up so we can do anything with it. " "paramount/cbs will accept anything at this point!" Maybe I am reading this into what was said but not good they CBS/Paramount viacom w/e need to divorce themselves from bad robot and JJ.  A leech pulling succor without doing anything but shitting in the sandbox.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Jul 22, 2019, 12:44 amYeah, I see that it is. The characters still look like CN characters to me. But, it is supposed to be a comedy. I do like some comedy in Star Trek, (The Voyage Home had just the right amount of comedy for me) but I never wanted a Star Trek show that's a comedy. It's by the guy who writes Rick and Morty, which never looked good to me. But, I'll probably give it a shot. My expectations will be low, though, and I can always stop watching if I don't like it.

I don't like the look of this cartoon, there are much better styles out there. But as this is coming from the creator of Rick and Morty, I am not surprise that the animation is very similar to that.

I have tired to watch Rick and Morty and did not find it any good.

Quote from: MadKoifish on Jul 22, 2019, 01:39 amThe nickelodeon one I do not think has been mentioned for ages.

Yeah it been very quite on that front.

Quote from: MadKoifish on Jul 22, 2019, 01:39 amAlso those hoping bad robot and JJ will go away, he is mentioned as well as the company repeatedly in recent interviews with Tarantino and his plans for a film. Some ways the quotes of JJ say "look I fucqed trek up so we can do anything with it. " "paramount/cbs will accept anything at this point!" Maybe I am reading this into what was said but not good they CBS/Paramount viacom w/e need to divorce themselves from bad robot and JJ.  A leech pulling succor without doing anything but shitting in the sandbox.

I would not read into that to much. JJ contract renewal with Paramount and CBS deadline is coming up. If he has no movie in production by the deadline it does not get renewed and then he loses it. His biggest issue is that he can't get any financial backers. Before 4th film was announced Tarantino stated that he had idea for a Trek film and spoke to JJ and Paramount about it. But nothing more on it.
JJ, financial backers pulled out with his Fourth film and left him with nothing and the movie was cancelled. Fast forward a year and the deadline for the contract is coming up fast for them. Tarantino is now promoting his new movie and is being asked about his Trek film. Of course he going to give answers, but their is still no substance to what he has said about it in the past.

JJ is hope that with Tarantino talking about this Trek film he wants to do, it will bring in financial backers. But I can't see it happening before the deadline, and on top of that JJ just signed a new deal with Warner Brothers. Would Paramount really want to work with someone that made a deal with them, not produce anything new, which they where meant to. (with the Except of Trek all of Bad Robot work with Paramount has been Mission Impossible and the Colverfield stuff.) Leave to go and work for Disney and then go off and sign a major deal with the WB?
I don't think so.


Speaking of Paramount and CBS, it is looking like the Merger of the two companies could be happening sooner rather than later. with this story form Trekmovie.com (https://trekmovie.com/2019/07/19/cbs-viacom-merger-announcement-expected-soon-star-trek-re-unification-cited-as-factor/)
This could be a good thing for Trek with everything back under one roof, but with Alex Kurtzman still around I can see issues. (Rumour has it he has been pulled off anything creatively to do with Trek. As his Company Secret Hideout are making all current Trek programs and CBS unable to remove him form that position he is now just being used as a figure head for trek. In another word, he will be at the con's and do the interviews but will have no creative control over Trek in the future.)

Yeah, Tarantino won't shut up about his film. "Pulp Fiction in space." He says that's what it would be. That sounds like a worse idea for a Star Trek film than Into Darkness. He also has been blasting Simon Pegg lately because of some stuff Pegg said. It's all hot air until something actually happens.

Part of that is because Pegg was putting words into Tarantino's mouth. And yes I am not sold on gore abuse and violence being a core of the show. It coudnt be worse than ID but then that is what people said about ST5, then STID came out.
And atm He repeats about talking to JJ and badrobot in recent calls not stuff from old photos. So who knows. Id trust quotes over reports from some blog.
At this time I would not discount CBS from continuing to make some stupid decisions. So yeah JJ and BR are shitting on em working for other studios out of a CBS lot. They might just be stupid and continue with him. Vast majority still eat up his crap.

Well he is the Golden Boy of Hollywood. I have no freaking idea why, because he has not made anything that people love.
They call him the next Spielberg. Really Spielberg! that guys has more creativity in his nail clipping than JJ has.

Okay Spielberg not has been as successful as he once was, but even with his first major film he knock the ball not just out of the park but of the atmosphere and his following films where just as successful or even more so. JJ in his whole career and not even come close to one of Spielberg worse films. (I don't count 1941 has a bad Spielberg film. It may have bombed when it came out but it has a cult following now.)

Yeah, I never understood what people saw in Kill Bill, while fun to me it was a weebs spurg film and had nothing to do with anime and japanese film like it is claimed. Maybe a western whites idea of like what the UK calls a japanese garden. (well anything in europe as japanesque, which is more a distorted fever dream mixed up with a crapload of tropy chinese things. Pulp Fiction was good but i never went out to buy it in any "perfect" collection unlike stuff like 5th Element and whatnot.

Id more call him a pro indi film maker working with the big name studios than some savant. His fanboyism though I dunno how it would work out. It might be good or it might be a nerd fantasy fanfic like show where he tries to cram everyone and everything into the film.

Watching ST2 atm and boy you can tell Meyer hated trek and just did what he could with tropes. Bones lines at times are just as bad as ID lines were in just positioned to say the meme lines.
Watched a UK scifi docu and they were really nasty toward trek but had a interview with him that spoke to a lot of how ST2 feels. While I loved the whole khan thing there are tonnes of wtfh things in it like the TMP ere treatment of a 1990s sublight ship wreckage. Still a good movie though as it follows the presets of tension and flow of stage segments. Always thought this presentation of "ACTS" is the best way to tell a story in film.

I just rewatched GUNNM (crappy anime adaptation) after watching Alita movie. For what he did clearly did not follow the original manga (read the US translations vs fan translations) I was shocked in the movie that he kept so many of the ORIGINAL names for things. Zalem etc. Think the worst thing about it was making it PG. Blue blood lack of gore and punk super violence that was integral to gunnm. But it was one of the better films in a while that I have watched. Has me considering getting the 4k brd of it to have a physical print even if my player might not play it. (some of the 4k titles wont play on my player)

Anyhow all of that is I wont hold Tarantino to anything until I see something because I can never know what will come out. Cameron can surprise me so can Tarantino. but then again maybe NOT lol. So far what has been said in his wants of including people I lean on the nerdy wet dream side of things.

Oh forgot to add talks about a 4k version of TMP are on again. Guessing they will have to redo all that interlaced 480p cgi. Sure hope they just do not rerender with those 2001 models. Sadly it sounds like that is what they plan to do. 2001 to 2019 that is a whole lot of cgi development since then.


Picard: something they should really consider is adding in treats like maybe Capt Riker on titan etc. Also they said that ent bridge from STD was shipped to LA for picard, what I saw looked like a ugly bad idea cargo hauler with a bridge on one end. Dunno if in any ship I would want a command deck on the end of a large room like that. Either way not seeing anything of that bridge unless those 2 consoles and that chair are all that remains of it. Sad if it is.

So I was watching the latest ROBSERVATIONS Live Chat with Robert Meyer Burnett.
He has raised an interesting question. Who is the real creator behind the Picard series?
Why does he ask this you say, well while he was watching the latest trailer for Picard. It look very familiar to story Pitched for a new Trek show that would be based around Data and Seven of Nine, which has also been registered with the Writers Guild of America.


Where did this story pitch come from, none other than Bryan Fuller.
So back when Fuller was approached by CBS to create a new Trek show, he pitch five ideas. One of which would go on to be a bastedised version of his original pitch call Discovery.

This other pitch was based post Nemesis. Data is now a Captain and has command of his own ship. He finds out that the Romulan star has become unstable and will go explode in a very short time. He goes to Starfleet who put together a fleet of ships to evacuate the system before the star blows. However time is running short and they don't have enough ships. Data makes decision and contact Seven of Nine who has links to former Brog that have returned to the Alpha Quadrant when the Borg was destroyed (Voyager last episode Endgame?). They being their Borg Cube ships and start using their Planet Assimilation Technology to get everyone of the planet in time, just before the star explosion reaches Romulas and Remus. The Roumlans and Remons recued by the former Brog start to suffer from PSD and other issues due to Assimilation Technology to get them off the planet. Due this this the former Borg and start to be attacked where ever they go and Data tried to defend them.

Starfleet is not happy with Data and the decision he made, court marshal him, Believe that due to his experience with the Borg (During First Contact) he cares more for the Brog than biological life forms.

Picard is brought in to Defend Data but due to his time as being Loctus he is conflicted.

RMB stated that while Fuller was coming up with this pitch he was in talks with Jeri Ryan and Brent Spiner about it.
He also say what was shown in the trailer is different from Fuller pitch but a lot of the Brog elements seen in it is picked right out of Fuller pitch. He even called Fuller after seeing the Trailer to confirm he was right.


Does this mean that Picard is a bastedised version of Fuller pitch, well it to early to tell it only a trailer and until we see the final produce there is no way to tell. But Given Kurtzman history I would not be surprised if this turns out to be true.

Quote from: MadKoifish on Jul 23, 2019, 07:49 amOh forgot to add talks about a 4k version of TMP are on again. Guessing they will have to redo all that interlaced 480p cgi. Sure hope they just do not rerender with those 2001 models. Sadly it sounds like that is what they plan to do. 2001 to 2019 that is a whole lot of cgi development since then.

I saw this too, let hope that Paramount to a proper job, then I will snap it up.
But then I still waiting for the director cuts of Star Trek VI:TUC.

Quote from: MadKoifish on Jul 23, 2019, 07:49 amPicard: something they should really consider is adding in treats like maybe Capt Riker on titan etc. Also they said that ent bridge from STD was shipped to LA for picard, what I saw looked like a ugly bad idea cargo hauler with a bridge on one end. Dunno if in any ship I would want a command deck on the end of a large room like that. Either way not seeing anything of that bridge unless those 2 consoles and that chair are all that remains of it. Sad if it is.

That bridge reminds me of cheap scifi films bridge sets from the Sci-Fi channel form the 90's.

Oh, I'm a fan of some of Tarantino's work. I have Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Inglourious Basterds and Kill Bill 1 & 2. I need to get From Dusk Till Dawn and I want to see his latest movie. I didn't really care for Django Unchained and haven't seen The Hateful Eight. However, I don't want him touching Star Trek. I don't feel his style of filmmaking is at all right for Trek. He favors heavy violence, strong language and not having things in order. That works for his films but not other stuff. He directed two episodes of CSI and they were terrible. He needs to do his own stuff and leave established franchises alone. If he wants Pulp Fiction in space, do a movie based on that concept, but not Star Trek.

As far as his writing and direction style, he's decent but he's not exactly original. He has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of film and he "borrows" a lot from other films and directors. He has ideas, but not necessarily how to create new stuff, more how to blend old stuff together in new ways. He's a recipe man more so than one who creates the ingredients. He's kind of the Steve Jobs of filmmaking.

Anyway, he and Pegg have been going back and forth. Both like to talk out of their asses about anything, even stuff they have little knowledge of. The latest rumor I heard is that Tarantino and Uma Thurman are back on speaking terms and are talking about Kill Bill Vol. 3. He's claimed he's only going to direct ten films, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was number nine. So, he only has one film left if he's going to cap it at ten.

As for Picard, it wouldn't surprise me if they used a Bryan Fuller concept. It seems he was the last person at CBS to have good Trek ideas.

Well it won't surprise me if it is very similar to Fuller pitch. After all Kurtzman took the whole Control idea from a Trek novel written by David Mack called Section 31: Control (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Section-31-Control-Star-Trek/dp/1501151703) and he was not even credited for it. At least Marvel are crediting the work their movies are base off. weather that being a cameo in a film or in the credits or both.(I have been told the book far better than anything that was done in season 2 of STD but that not that hard.)

If Picard is very similar to fuller pitch I hope he is credited, if not it will be interesting to see if the WGA does anything if he not as it has been registered with them.

Yes they don't own the rights to Trek, but if Secret Hideout used a major position of his pitch and don't credit him. I am sure WGA can do something about that. IE pull all WGA members from any Trek production until he is.

I'm pretty sure I've already stated in the past that Kurtzman isn't very creative. If you look at his body of work, it's all derivative. He's done remakes, sequels, comic adaptations and stuff based on public domain works. He never does anything original. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he takes credit for others' stuff too. He's a leech.

Also, I wouldn't be too praising of Marvel giving credit for character creation, given the number of controversies they've had over the years. Especially bad was what Stan Lee did to Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby back in the day:

https://comicbookhistorians.com/marvel-1960s-jack-kirby-stan-lee-steve-ditko-who-created-what/

And, those are just two examples. I'm pretty sure there have been other stories of Stan Lee taking credit for creating characters he didn't necessarily create. I'm not saying he wasn't a great man, he turned Marvel into what it is now. But, he played it a bit fast and loose with the credits back in the day, and he seemed to make it appear that he created everything.

yup that whole creative control. Boss over underlings as responsible for creation. It is like Disney, work for them and anything you create even at home of off time is theirs period. Do not sign that contract you do not get the job.

I always said they should just use the books for stories but when I think about it CBS might not have the rights to the content in those as it is a sub license to pocket bantam etc. Depends on whatever contract they wrote up and if it is public or not.

Yeah, anything produced under an license would be copyrighted by the company owning the license. To use that stuff, CBS would actually have to pay for a license.

Depends on the contract. Rizzoli for example CBS has rights to use anything used in the calendars. Heck most of them now all say CBS vs the printer unlike in the past.

Actually, there may be something to that. It turns out that Simon & Schuster, who has been publishing Star Trek books for decades, is owned by CBS. When Viacom was split, CBS got Simon & Schuster in the divorce. So, they may actually be able to use what is published in the novels. Like Dean said, it depends how it's set up.

Rizzoli, on the other hand, isn't owned by CBS. They're a major Italian media corporation.

I guess I'm in the minority as I thought the full-trailer looked fairly promising. ESPECIALLY GERI!! OMG she's soooooo divine!!! AWW wants her!

Seriously speaking, lesbian outbursts aside, from what little there was I felt it had a grittier and cinematic tone to it. Will reserve full judgement of course till it premiers but I'm certainly gonna give a it a watch.

I've come to the self-confession that the Prime Universe Canon Trek we all know, love and grew up on is gone forever so I'm pushing my mind's eye to see all this is just a better reboot then the craptasitc dog shit-o-flick films from JJ. Basically, it is what it is.

There's a few other projects out there I'm staying excited for too, the upcoming Halo series on Showtime is happening and from what it looks like it will be a heavy adult drama and very serious toned show!!

Season 4 of The Expanse will be out in December and HOLY FUCKIN WOW!!! does it look good! It looks like the production quality  (which was already some of the best we've seen in televised scifi history) has gotten even better!!



Also Apple TV has confirmed they have ordered 1 season of Asimov's Foundation.

So yeah, there's good stuff coming! I'll take Picard and Space Herpes Trek as filler material between these other projects..

I think the full trailer looks promising too. I'm cautiously optimistic for Picard.

I agree with you that the original Trek universe is gone in the sense that the canon stuff will likely not use it again. Discovery was supposed to be that universe, but we saw how it didn't match up in looks, much less tone. But, that universe does live on in licensed content.

I've been saying for years that they need a proper reboot. No time travel nonsense creating alternate universes, no claims that it's a prequel to TOS that looks too different to be so. Just reboot it. See what a younger generation can do with reimagining what we saw before.

The Expanse trailer does look good, but we're getting ASIMOV'S FOUNDATION SERIES?!?!?!   I've been wanting that FOREVER!  I happen to be in the middle of the second book in the Foundation series (again) for enjoyment.  I started reading Foundation last week and this week, Foundation and Empire.  Oh man, that could be GREAT or it could be utter crap.  Either way, I'll certainly watch.

Younger generation?  :o

And therein lies the problem...Generation Snowflake cares not for depth, only surface feelings, safe spaces, crying towels, nothing real and fantasy sex appeal. An entire generation has been lost as a productive one due to our public education system becoming nothing more than Liberal Indoctrination Camps..Imagination with these kids is dead.

Hell most of them don't even believe we landed on the moon that's how utterly dysfunctional they are as a collective demographic.

@ Eric:

https://www.inverse.com/article/54348-foundation-on-apple-tv-plus-release-date-trailer-plot-isaac-asimov

EXPANSE EXPANSE EXPANSE.  It looks like they're taking the bare bones of the plot and the setting and shuffling the characters around over it.  Whatever.  Bring it.  SOOOO good.

And TMP 4K!  I have no bones about the DE, but I require that you give me both.  I'm not entitled, just right.

Quote from: Angry White Woman on Jul 24, 2019, 10:41 pmYounger generation?  :o

And therein lies the problem...Generation Snowflake cares not for depth, only surface feelings, safe spaces, crying towels, nothing real and fantasy sex appeal. An entire generation has been lost as a productive one due to our public education system becoming nothing more than Liberal Indoctrination Camps..Imagination with these kids is dead.

I said "a younger generation," I didn't say millennials. As in: younger than the people who worked on it before. I'm talking about people who are in their 40s and 50s who grew up on Star Trek. They would be a younger generation. The problem they have with the reboots they have tried so far is that they keep getting people in that demographic to reboot it, but they're not Star Trek fans. JJ Abrams is 53, Alex Kurtzman is 45. They're right in that age range, but the problem is neither of them really cares for the source material. Get someone like James Cawley to run the show. He's 52, so he grew up on Star Trek, and he's shown that he has the drive and passion to do Star Trek right. Just because he can't work on fan films anymore under CBS's rules doesn't mean CBS can't hire him to do canon Star Trek.

That's all I'm saying. Get some fresh blood in there, people with a real drive for this stuff. Quit hiring these guys who just want to make money off of the franchise, even if it means trampling all over it.

AWW, I enjoyed the Picard Trailer as well, there where a few things I did not like but not much.
As much as I love Jeri Ryan, that one scene she was in did not really say Seven of Nine to me. Yes it's been over 20 years since Voyager had returned, and people change a lot due life experiences. But their core personality will not change. Seven just came across a totally different character.  Sure she can be more human, but I would still expect that no nonce point view that she got from the Brog and that never came across in that one scene.

As for Cannon Trek, I am hear a lot of interesting thing are going on behind the scene at the moment. Nothing to report as Rumour or News yet. But if what I am hearing is true then it all good  and we can forget about JJ and possibly Secret Hideout.

As for The Expanse, I freaking love that show and can't wait until December.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Jul 24, 2019, 10:57 pm

Quote from: Angry White Woman on Jul 24, 2019, 10:41 pmYounger generation?  :o

And therein lies the problem...Generation Snowflake cares not for depth, only surface feelings, safe spaces, crying towels, nothing real and fantasy sex appeal. An entire generation has been lost as a productive one due to our public education system becoming nothing more than Liberal Indoctrination Camps..Imagination with these kids is dead.

I said "a younger generation," I didn't say millennials. As in: younger than the people who worked on it before. I'm talking about people who are in their 40s and 50s who grew up on Star Trek. They would be a younger generation. The problem they have with the reboots they have tried so far is that they keep getting people in that demographic to reboot it, but they're not Star Trek fans. JJ Abrams is 53, Alex Kurtzman is 45. They're right in that age range, but the problem is neither of them really cares for the source material. Get someone like James Cawley to run the show. He's 52, so he grew up on Star Trek, and he's shown that he has the drive and passion to do Star Trek right. Just because he can't work on fan films anymore under CBS's rules doesn't mean CBS can't hire him to do canon Star Trek.

That's all I'm saying. Get some fresh blood in there, people with a real drive for this stuff. Quit hiring these guys who just want to make money off of the franchise, even if it means trampling all over it.

I've had similar thoughts about James Cawley.  He would, at the very least, try to stay true to what had been done with the original Star Trek.  Get some real science fiction writers too, just like the original series used.  The recipe is already there, documented in countless books.

I'll probably pick this up once it releases:

http://blog.trekcore.com/2019/08/star-trek-discovery-season-2-bluray-november-12/

And, no, I'm not looking for anybody to try and talk me out of it. Opinions are opinions, and I form my own. I think out of everyone here, I liked season 1 the best, and several people have told me season 2 is better. I posted the link in case anyone else was interested and didn't now about it. (I literally just found out when I was going to Trek Core to look for something else)

So Star Trek Las Vegas has ended and there was not one major announcement.
Looks like CBS made all the big announcements at San Diego Comic Con and Producer ball a Week before.

I think that is slap in the fandom face right there. STLA is the biggest Trek Convection in the US and people pay thousands of Dollars/ Chose a currency, to come from around the world to go to it. Yet CBS had no special News for them, which is a joke.
Now if I had paid that sort money I would not have been happy as SDCC is far cheaper than STLV, and that including flight, hotel and getting into the Convection.

So for those that missed the SDCC announcements here they are.

1. We got the Picard trailer
2. News and screen shoots on Lower Decks.
3. More news on the Trek Shorts.
4. And this is a big one, we are getting the Director Edition Star Trek The Motion Picture in the cinema in December (in the US Only) for the 40 anniversary, which will be followed up it being realised on Bluray in 4K.

What they could have given to those that attended STLA.

1. More footage/ Information on the Picard Series
2. Actual footage of Lower Decks
3. Shown the frit episode of the Trek Short (I understand that has now wrapped and ready to be shipped out.)
4. Instead of making the ST:TMP DE at SDCC made it here. (after these are the people that are more likely to go a see it and buy it.)

But that not all, during STLA, CBS made a new Announcement but not at the Con.
Alex Kurtzman will be directing, writing and executive producing a new TV show based on the cult classic David Bowie film "The Man Who Fell to Earth."
You can read the article here. (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/tv/e2-80-98the-man-who-fell-to-earth-e2-80-99-tv-series-from-alex-kurtzman-ordered-by-cbs-all-access/ar-AAFeaHP)

With that announcement it looks like the rumours of Kurtzman being pulled of Star Trek or true.
If they are not how has he got the time to oversee all of Star Trek and it future project work on this his other obligations to CBS (Hawaii Five-0), Far Rockaway and the numerous Universal Dark Universe Movies that are still showing on his IMDB page and now this? Even if you remove the Universal movies its just too much for one person to do.
You don't see Kevin Feige working on anything out side of Marvel. The MCU has his full attention and if Kurtzman is still in charge of overseeing Star Trek it should be the same for him.

Personaly I would not set foot in VEGAS. Just take a google tour of it. Nothing but bangers hanging in the streets and trashed up cars with all those ugly 2005ish housing. All the rich people are all locked up behind walled gardens often 12ft+ soild fencing. So no I wouldn't pay thousands to go to a stupid con in VEGAS. Vegas is where all the unwanteds were flushed from all the calif cities when they all gentrified to push out homeless people and drive economies so high no one without a degree can live in them. Reason all the low pay jobs are done by kids and those who wont make it when they hit 30. (cant work 4 full time jobs manage roommate living much past 30)

Know alot of people shipped out there in the 90s and 2000s, just cant see why.

Also googled it it is a creation con. Massively commercial group who care nothing about the fandom just the cash they can milk. They run a lot of trek wars general scifi cons. Attended some but on associate passes cause the prices are a joke even back in the 80s and 90s. It is because they do not run of volunteers or compensation staff it is all hired pros so your paying for that. Security is probably a good quarter of the fee.  SDCC is nonprofit while creation are there to cash in.


Also it make more sense if they are wanting new fans or casuals to look by doing it as SDCC. Your talking hundreds of thousands vs a few thousand in a hotel. One number I found was 10k.  So just the numbers alone explain it.

I visited Vegas 19 years ago (way before Google was a household name) and it was a lot of fun. If you stay to the strip, which is the more tourist friendly part of town, it's not so bad. When I went, Star Trek: The Experience was up at the Hilton, that was really fun.

As for why they do stuff at SDCC, it's likely just what MKF said, more people attend it. It's THE nerd event of the summer, possibly the whole year. The bigger crowd means more exposure for projects. Non Star Trek fans may even wander into the panels and decide to try these shows. That's what they want, to attract new fans, not just play to existing fans. And, all things SDCC, especially the panels, get lots of coverage on the internet. To be honest, I forget the Vegas thing even exists. It's hard to forget SDCC exists. ;)

I know STLV is run by Creation, but it done in association with CBS/ Paramount (more likely CBS for the last few years).
After last year Con CBS told Creation that Vendors could not sell Bootleg stuff this year. I been told that due to this crack down about a third of the normal Vendors did not even turn up for this years Con.


Your also right about the normal number of attendees is around the 10K mark but this year it was down to somewhere between 4 and 6K. If you look at the you Tube Channels that went to the Con they all say the same thing.
The majority of the attendees are in late 30's +, there where not many kids around. But then holding it in Vegas would put families off from going. Vegas is not really been know as a kid friendly city.
So I can see why CBS made the announcements at SDCC, but they could have stilled held some news back for the fans. These are the people that are granted to buying your Goods, treat them like shit and they will stop. (just depend on how many time they get treated that way until they turn around a say enough is enough.)

Also found two more rumors since this morning.
1st is a little old by a few days. But it has been reported that the merger between CBS and Vicaom has now taken another step closure, both companies have agreed on a management structure. All they have to do now is dot the I and corss the T and the merger is done. So expect an announcement in the next few weeks.

The 2nd bit of Rumour is regards the Picard Series. From what I have heard we are not going to get the full story in the 10 episode of the first season. Apparently if you want to get the full story you will need to buy three comics and a novel. This will then lead into the show.

Bootleg is illegal even in nonprofit cons they should not be allowing any vendor to sell bootleg content. Even in the 90s we kicked out vendors selling illegal content. IE dubbed tapes (this was the 90s) I cannot see how they allowed it to start to begin with.

As for Picard if that rumor is true I wont be watching I hated that tie in bullshit in st09 and it just stinks of marketing spurg crap than any creative approach.

Also new trek when did it ever truly care about satiating fans?? they are only in it to get the biggest venue the biggest exposure for the least amount of cash. And a bunch of post 30 something in trek costumes are not in their target range no matter how much they lap up the new crap. They want the millennial cosplaying (KOZZZPlay) hipster gits whos add causes them to change directions every 4 seconds. GOD I hate that word, cospaly is to act as the character not just wear a costume. It is not even a fucking english word.

Creation cons never did have much for kids in attendance even in the 80s and 90s day passes even for kids were ridiculous in cost. I mean 91 it was like 150 for a under 12 ticket for a con in a meh hotel.

I'd say the Picard rumor is true, as I've been seeing (but not opened up) articles about the comics. They're shooting themselves in the foot with a move like that. I could see some people getting the comics, but there are a number of people who flat out won't read a novel. I guess it all depends how critical this stuff is to the actual show. The "full story" may not mean you have to have read that stuff to follow along, it may just be extra background, or something. Reading that "Countdown" comic for ST09 wasn't necessary, it just expanded upon what old Spock described in his mind meld with Kirk.

actually the comics filled in quite a lot of plot holes and dodgy stuff in the film. If they couldnt do a good job  separating that then they wont now. EXP as it is the same people doing it.
Makes the film or show less than what it is as they hold back tie in stuff.

I read the Countdown comic once, and I don't remember a lot of it. I thought it was a waste of time, but maybe that was just me. It filled in some of the back story on Nero and his group, as well as the efforts by 24th century people to stop the giant supernova of death. I don't remember it fixing any plot holes, but I obviously didn't commit it to memory.

But, I'm pretty much done with those reboots anyway. The last time I tried watching ST09, I didn't even finish it. It's just too dumb. The characters are shells of what they're supposed to be, and the plot has so many holes that nothing can fix them all. Into Darkness was way worse, but Beyond was good. **shrugs** It's weird that that movie series was finally finding its footing when it "died," but it really needed to die as it wasn't a good series compared to the stuff that came before it. I'm glad the 4th movie seems to have fizzled.

And, no, you shouldn't have to read tie ins to get the gist of the series, it should stand alone. This is an obvious attempt to sell more stuff. Besides, IDW still has the comic license, and I already know you hate them.

Ironically, not forcing people to have read books and comics is exactly why Lucasfilm dumped the Star Wars expanded universe when it did the sequel trilogy. They wanted the new movies to stand alone. Filmed Trek has always stood alone, never even acknowledging its licensed stuff. That all changed with that Countdown comic, and it's sad that they want to do that same thing again.

I went backwards and found a lot of what I complained about to be brought to closure as the comic related to it.  Things sort of like the supernovae as it occurs in another system to a universally old star so it is s super massive nova but there is other things like possible relations to others doing shit to cause it and that it was pulling power elsewhere. Mudds skiff being in the bay, in the movie it was like oh magically we have this thing we took off some guy, without the comic it comes across as a fanboi add in to hint at TOS. There were more things but it has been a while. I think the beta canon site has more info on things as there I think are a few books that expand on the 09 film. I thought the comics were typical US stuff, crap. Poor storyboarding bad layouts and horrible speech layouts.

The reboot films were ok ID is what killed it for me. Much of 09 was forgivable if not dodgy, but not a blatant shit on the fandom and the old works as ID was. Beyond was ok but not really trek again another mega-maniacal ex fed citizen gone bad. MORE internal enemy vs external. Granted reboot trek and neu trek is not responsible for this shit it was berman and braga that started that corrupt federation officials or internal enemy bullcrap.

Fo rme the wars stuff just expanded and did not interrelate. I think Disney screwed up by fiddling with the past and during the older films. Solo etc. Also repeating tropes and memes but almost all films today suffer this. I personally like all the tv extra shows like Rebels and so on that just opened thing sup but did not lessen what was done in the films. What i did like about solo though is it tied in all these hints from Rebels and other things. I did not find it as bad a movie as many do. Personally Solo and rouge 1 seriously outshined the new series of films.

Sorry I did not mean Bootleg Merch, what I meant was self made goods. Ships, poster, T-shirts and the likes.
If it has not been Licensed by CBS it could not be sold.
So if Dan had gone with a bunch of Prints or 3D prints of his own created ships he would not have been able to sell it as it was not Licensed by CBS. But saying that I did see a Video where one seller was selling knitted Connie Enterprises, So I not 100% sure what they meant by none Licensed Trek Merch as the Knitted Enterprise sure as hell was not Licensed by CBS, but was being sold.

Yeah that tie in shit just won't fly, except with the Super Hard Core Fan that will buy anything that is put out.
As for the Target crowed CBS is going for, they sure as hell are not going to buy it.

The Problem with Trek at the moment is that people running it don't have a freaking clue What Trek is and those that are there that do are not being listened to. On top of that, they are trying to turn Trek into Star Wars / Game of Thrones in space. By doing so it is losing it own Identity. Sure you can have the Federation, Klingons, Borg Etc but if it does not have good Stories and Characters and a hope for a brighter future it not Trek.

Then you got Kurtzman saying that Star Trek was never appealing to Kids. Seriously WTF?
I don't know about you guys, but I saw Trek at a very early age, it was what sparked my love for Science fiction. My first Memory of Trek is when I was around the age of 4-5. I'll admit that I did not watch it between the age of 6 and 10, but that was because I was living overseas and we only had one TV channel that broadcasted in the Evening for a few hours and did not show it. (but I had seen all the films as they came to VHS and loved them.) It was only after I had come back to the UK, that I got into properly it. (This was in 91) The UK was a year behind the States with TNG and it was shown on Sky first. If you did not have Sky you where 2 years behind the States as that was when the BBC could start showing it. This is when I really got into Trek, So Kurtzman saying that Trek is not appealing to kids is BS.

Do you F'ing homework you Muppet and write a decent story with good character building, before running around trying to get  multiple spin-offs of the ground. As they say in Field of Dreams, "If you have a good story, they will come!" No matter what the age, just don't put gore and bad langue in it so that it automatically alienates the kids.

There are fir use laws involved. If it is a good manufactured say a tshirt printed vis silk screen that could come under the law of CBS license. If I sold prints of my own models they have no legal hold and governance of cons (least in the us forbids alterations of resale laws) Cons have to obey local and national laws EXP as most now require you to have a resellers license. They cannot be a closed market or shaped market. So CBS could only enforce replication of licensed product or mass manufactured product. So things like cast models, jewlery (manufactured). They cannot stop handcrafted items. BUT in most cases anything handcrafted or produced including prints of non cbs assets are fair game and often sold in the "artists" ally. Dealers are those running a business (or should be as I ran as a dealer myself for years to avoid the bullshit of the AA)

3d prints are a questionable point. If I had say 30 connie prints yeah Id get on that person, but if it was one or 2 clearly it is a guy with one machine vs a print farm in a warehouse. If it was official canon ships yes CBS could lay claim to anything using CBS assets. If it is original designs and work they would have no hold in a court and it would take a court to settle it as forcing a dealer or seller under the reseller laws to not sell in of it self is a legal issue.

I can bet it was mostly guys selling photos and prints. Most cons youll have 2 or 3 people selling photo prints from official headshots etc. As well as other images. None of this is a case where they have the rights to. Most just optically print them (take a photo of the photo) but today they can scan em in. They also make all those buttons and other crap like all the famous blueprints and con booklets. I dunno how much of that is around now but I can bet a majority of the dealers that were affected were this type. In the past largest issue of bootleggers were those selling vhs tapes of stuff or cds full if images or videos/data. And often those who use china partners to make cheap product with images.



The issue if the tie ins, if it is done right asn just expand on things OK but if done like before with trek then no as it has important info that made the impressions in the film change completely or closed up continuity or plot issues etc. As it is mostly the same people doing things, I see failure.

Trek was for kids all through the 70sa 80s and 90s. Least TOS. TNG era and on dunno. I do remember shitloads of cereal bread and other kid consumables having TNG all over it. Also the toys. EXP in the late 80s and early 90s as Adult Nerdom acceptance was very thin and not a fad so sales were mostly kids. (worked for TRU in the late 80s early 90s)

I cannot even remember when I first "saw" it. Mother used to be back then a heavy scifi reader so probably before I stopped crapping in a diaper. :O


funny as I think back on how people complained about ENTERPRISE. . . . . heh.

CBS doesn't and by extention most other compaines don't really care to much about copyright violation to a point, that axanar crap was well beyond the point..

Take a look a any comic or anime con, some guy in a booth selling tshirts or prints.. aren't licensed!  Even saying.. hey I drew that Wolverine picture! doesn' mean anyhing.. your using a copyrighted character.. and they do nothing about it..

Only real time Cbs or another company will act is if a licensed company sends in a complaint to Cbs that website A or store B is infrenging there licensed product, please go protect my license..  then they act. Big companies dont have time to monitor everything on the internet.. If they did.. Shapeways would be toast!

This is a bit of old news as I did not report it.
But the merger between CBS and Viacom has gone a head, the new company will be know as Viacom/CBS.

What this mean for Trek is not yet known, As Secret Hideout have STD and Picard in production they are currently staying in place. However it has been rumoured that Kurtzman has lost all his power with Trek production, this is due to the unpopularity of STD and season 2 and Picard going well over budget. (It rumoured that with the combined extra cost of both show, CBS could have funded an entire next season of NCIS and then some.) This was done when Michael Chabon announced as the showrunner. Chabon no longer answer to Kurtzman and only answers to the head of CBSAA.

As for Kurtzman, well he owns Secret Hideout and due to the merger. It would not look good for CBS to fire him as the head of Trek. So he has been relegated to being the month peace of Trek. (I would not be surprised if he disappear a year after merger has been approved by the federal government *That should not be an issue as they approved the Disney Fox Merger.* and it will be done on the quite.)

Since the rumour that Kurtzman was fired there has only been one interview with him stating his five year plan for Trek that gave no new information that we did not already know about. Shortly after that Chabon was announced as the showrunner for Picard and then there has been no sign of Kurtzman except as SDCC and again not giving any new news except that STD season 3 was now in production. I not even sure he went to STLV.

So this weekend we got two new Trailer. One for Star Trek: Picard and the other for Discovery.
We also got a date for Picard, which is the 24 January, no date as yet for Discovery.

Here is the Picard Trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvKBeOKvblI

Looks interesting but I an still not 100% sold on it. Also why is the Ship Picard on in a battle with the Romulan BOP from TOS, it should be no match as that ship is over a 100 years old.
As for Data why have they made him so fat faces. Spiner not that fat in the face? Data just does not look right and given how they can do de-aging these days this is just pure wrong.

Anyway here is the trailer for Discovery. (It not a great copy as I am outside of the States I can't find a decent one without reactions.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIGcwvvijf8

Looking at this it looks like Kurtzman is ripping off Bryan Singer & Robert Meyer Burnett Star Trek Pitch show called Federation which can be found on the net.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Federation

Yeah, as soon as they started yelling about Picard's daughter, I started to wonder if this new series was going to last.

The new series is trying to cash in on nostalgia, nothing more. As Bernd Schneider said, the new trailer shows us nothing new as far as the story of the series, but it shows us more of the guest appearances of Brent Spiner and Jeri Ryan and shows us Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis. Even though those people are only going to be in the pilot (so far) they're obviously trying to appeal to older Star Trek fans, rather than trying to get newer people into Star Trek, which hasn't worked as well as they'd hoped with the newer films or Discovery.

I'm on a wait and see approach. As I said on SFM, the stuff with Data can probably be chalked up to Brent Spiner's age and the budget (or lack thereof) for the series. You can't expect too much from a web series with little budget. The BOP could have been retrofitted, it was done in the game Star Trek Online, because the post Romulus/Remus destruction Romulans are in shambles. There's precedent for older ships being retrofitted, such as the cannon fodder Miranda class and Excelsior class ships in the Dominion War, and the K't'inga class ships firing some kind of beam weapon they never seemed to possess previously in The Way of the Warrior.

Yeah I don't have a lot of hope for this show, given who making it.
Putting Kurtzman in charge was a big mistake, he has stated that he was never a fan and that not a bad thing. But he has never taken the time to learn what Trek was all about. That is the biggest difference between him and Harve Bennett.
I would not be surprised if he has not watched all of any Trek series and only watched a few TOS episodes and nothing else.

Also getting the man who co-wrote two trek films which have been forgotten does not really say a lot.
Before you say they where successful, where they really? Yes they both made a profit but not a huge profit that Paramount wanted, also while ST:ID made more than Trek 09 at the box office, it cost more to make. It profit margin for Paramount was actually less than what Trek 09 made.

Before someone say he a good producer on TV. I have taken a look at his history. Every show that he has created or produced has not lasted more than two seasons, with the exception of two. Hawaii Five-0 and Scorpion. With Scorpion, it was just another formulaic TV show that after it first season was on the bubble of being cancelled until it finally was.
While Hawaii Five-0 is still going strong and onto it 10 season, I heard they have been major bust up behind the scene with cast and crew threating to walk away. Since Katzman is no longer as involved with that show thing have improved vastly.

As for the cost of the show, STD was the most expensive show to make after Game of Thrones and Picard is rumoured to cost twice as much as a GOT show making it the most expansive show made until Amazons Lord of the Rings comes out.
Apparently Frakes and Sirtis was never meant to be in the show, but given how bad the test viewing where, they where added in the re-shoots to get some fans back. I am also hearing that these reshoots have not improved thing very much.
I guess you guys in the states will find out on the 23rd and the rest of us will find out on 24th.

I also forgot to mention that a new Short Trek has come out on CBSAA and it the worst one yet and kills Spock character even more than season 2 of STD did.
For those of outside of the States no word on when or where we are getting it. Apparently Netflix has again not asked for them. If Netflix does get it, it mostly going to be put with the STD Trailers like they did last time. Hell Netflix has still not realised the Trailer for season 3.

Really, what has Kurtzman produced that's been all that good? He worked with JJ Abrams on some TV shows over the years, but he was far from being a showrunner on successful shows like Alias or Fringe. Transformers Prime was one of his shows, it did OK. Three seasons isn't too bad for a kids' show. I've seen some episodes, it wasn't bad. Sleepy Hollow also did alright, that's one of his. And, his big hit has been Hawaii Five-O. Otherwise, a lot of the shows he's been attached to as a producer haven't done well.

I think the only movies he's written and/or produced that have been box office successes were the first two Transformers films and the two Star Trek films he was on board with. And, let's see how those went. Most Tranformers fans consider the fist live action film to be good, and it goes downhill from there. (the script for Revenge of the Fallen was terrible) Star Trek was generally well received by fans, but Into Darkness wasn't. Discovery has been poorly received. The first season has an 83% critics score on Rotten tomatoes, and a 52% audience score. Season two has 82% critics and 36% audience. Not great numbers from the score that really matters.

So, yeah, he's been directly involved in wrecking two franchises. Also, anybody remember that Mummy reboot he not only produced and directed, but was under a huge deal with Universal to revive their monster movies? Yeah, that idea fizzled so badly. The Mummy was a commercial success (due to International audiences paying to see it more than US audiences) but was very poorly received and the rest of that deal was canceled as a result. Of course, some sources have blamed Tom Cruise for that, which is possible, but still it was a Kurtzman project that fizzled.

Compare his resume to someone like Joss Whedon. Whedon has been attached to less projects overall than Kurtzman, but has a much higher success rate. With him, it's less about quantity and more about quality, whereas Kurtzman has been more about quantity. His deal to do all those Star Trek series speaks volumes to that point, whereas Whedon seems to take on projects one at a time and put real time and effort into them. Another fair comparison would be Seth MacFarlane, who is the same age as Kurtzman. He's produced a number of successful shows and has done some movies too. He can also do better Star Trek. The Orville season 1 has a 30% critics score and a 94% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. The critics got on board for season 2, though, it has a 100% critics score and still a 94% audience score.

So, I'd say Kurtzman is a mediocre producer at best.

Chris, I'd say your assessment was clear, honest, and most of all, accurate.  Nicely summed.

Quote from: scifieric on Oct 08, 2019, 09:22 pmChris, I'd say your assessment was clear, honest, and most of all, accurate.  Nicely summed.

Thanks. I'm not a fan of Kurtzman and I've called him a hack more than once, so I figured I'd back that up with some minor research. Like Dean said, looking at his profile on IMDb, it's not really all that impressive. Certainly not to the point where CBS wrote him that big contract to do all that Star Trek. I have no idea why they did that, especially since Discovery wasn't even doing that well when they did it.

At least we only got two years left on the Kurtzman five year contact. If Viacom CBS extends that, Star Trek is well and truly dead. With the way things are going, this will most likely be Kurtzman last major job unless he goes into the soap-opera  where he truly belongs along with the writers of STD and Picard.


I had a look to see who wrote the latest Short Trek and it not good, It was written by Michael Chabon. The man who is running Picard.
I have also heard that this Short Trek is not doing very well on CBSAA, with less than 5,000 views.

Has it really been that long since Kurtzman signed that contract? Wow, time flies. Though, it also doesn't seem like it's been almost two years since Discovery first hit, yet it definitely is.

I can't really comment on the Short Treks, as I haven't seen any of them.

It would seem that, despite popular belief to the contrary, they are still working on a fourth JJ-Verse Star Trek film, since Noah Hawley has been announced to be writing and directing it. Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Zoe Saldana and Karl Urban are expected to all return. And, JJ Abrams' Bad Robot will be returning to produce, along with Hawley's own production company.

So, yeah, it looks like they're not giving up on that series of films. Looking at Hawley's credits, he's done a lot of writing on a few shows and has directed some episodes of Fargo and Legion. Maybe they're getting a TV writer and director to try and return to that TV show vibe that made Star Trek popular in the first place.

Also, this is completely separate from whatever Star Trek movie is being developed with Quentin Tarantino.

Hm.  Interesting.

Yeah, I don't know what to make of it either. Just reporting on what I saw earlier. It's not a surprise they're not abandoning the JJ universe, though, as it's an established universe and they don't have to restart. I don't know this new guy's work, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes, new blood is what you need.

It might be best to abandon JJ Kelvin Timeline. They don't need to restart.
Just go back to the original timeline bring back some of the old faces and introduce new Characters and ships
But it needs to be post Nemesis and not have the STD look, that Picard seem to have.

It's not too late to do the Stargazer....

Quote from: scifidude79 on Nov 21, 2019, 02:14 pmIt's not too late to do the Stargazer....

Now THAT sounds like an excellent idea!

More prequels? No thank you, I am done with that.
Time to move franchise forward again. But update the looks of the 90's Trek and get rid of this JJ/Kurtman look.
it just does not fit with Trek, it either to dark or to bright and don't have it look like an apple store.

Now if they did a film on a new Stargazer and bring back Patrick Stewart for a cameo. A handing of the baton so to speak, then I am all for it. That is something Discovery has not done. Yes I know they brought back Pike, but it not the same if it not the same actor/ actress and it was in the second season not the pilot. Everything before has done it even JJ 09 film.

It's not exactly a prequel, it's a Lost Era thing. After all, the Stargazer was in service between the NCC-1701-A and NCC-1701-D. It's an era with a pretty specific type of technology and style to it.

Did you guys hear that D.C. Fontana died? She was, of course, the writer of many great TOS episodes, including "Journey to Babel" and its TAS follow-up/prequel, "Yesteryear." Of course, she wrote many more episodes, such as "Tomorrow is Yesterday," and worked on the later shows as well. If I listed all of her episodes, it would be a huge list, and many of them are fan favorites. Her writing was so good for TOS that she was promoted to Story Editor at only 27 years old, the youngest Story Editor in Hollywood at the time. She died on Monday following a short illness (no details) at the age of 80.

Yes.  Sadly, I read about it yesterday.  Steve Neil posted about it on Facebook with a picture of himself and D.C. Fontana.  She was one of the best things that ever happened to Star Trek, in my opinion.

I thought Steve didn't do Facebook. He must have revised that policy. ;)

Indeed, she was one of the best. She literally shaped worlds in Star Trek. A lot of the things she wrote in episodes about Vulcan is still being used. She also wrote the story for "Heart of Glory," one of the early defining Klingon episodes of TNG. Plus, as story editor on TOS, she was in charge of making things were written in a way that worked for the show. That's a very important job.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Nov 22, 2019, 01:21 pmIt's not exactly a prequel, it's a Lost Era thing. After all, the Stargazer was in service between the NCC-1701-A and NCC-1701-D. It's an era with a pretty specific type of technology and style to it.

If Kurtzman or JJ cronies did a show in this era they totally changed it up and modernise it, and crap all over canon
thanks but no thanks. Now if they kept the style of what we have seen from this era and do it as two part 2 hours each episode mini series, I would be all for this. This would also include the Earth Romulan war.

But the cost of building set would stop this ever happening, why or why did CBS/Paramount throw / sell everything off?
By redressing the old set they could have done it.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Dec 04, 2019, 03:56 amDid you guys hear that D.C. Fontana died? She was, of course, the writer of many great TOS episodes, including "Journey to Babel" and its TAS follow-up/prequel, "Yesteryear." Of course, she wrote many more episodes, such as "Tomorrow is Yesterday," and worked on the later shows as well. If I listed all of her episodes, it would be a huge list, and many of them are fan favorites. Her writing was so good for TOS that she was promoted to Story Editor at only 27 years old, the youngest Story Editor in Hollywood at the time. She died on Monday following a short illness (no details) at the age of 80.

Yeah I saw this a great shame.
If Rodenberry was the father or Trek, D.C. was it mother.
She will be greatly missed.

I don't understand why set building is such a great hurdle for them, with amount of money they're putting into the newer Star Trek shows. I mean, they supposedly had to tear down sets from Discovery to film Picard. That's ridiculous, given how much they're spending to make the show. Stop paying people to just be there ("producers") and pay people to do actual work for the shows!

Yeah Discovery has 21 producers, that is freaking ridicules for a TV. It will be interesting to see how many Picard will have.

As for the Discovery set, not all where pulled down. just some of them so they could ship them off to LA for us in Picard.
Discovery is filmed in Toronto, but Picard is filmed in LA.
I guess we will find out which set where pulled down in the early episodes of Discovery as that started production on the third season where Picard was still in production, But then again maybe not as Discovery did some filming in Island, but I don't know how much and long they where there for that.

So far on IMDB, there are 11 producers listed for Picard, 8 of which are listed as "executive producer." Now, one of the executive producers is Patrick Stewart, which only makes sense. Hopefully, they're giving him some creative input and not just putting his name there to make him happy and to give him more money. He deserves the money, but I want him to be able to contribute to the show in other ways, since he's been playing the character for 32 years now.

Not sure if Stewart being a creative executive producer is a good thing. After all he was behind the dune buggy in nemesis. He was also involved with X-Men: The last Stand, though I don't how much input he had with that.

In other news the Merger between CBS and Viacom (Paramount) is now completed.
Star Trek is now all back under one roof. Don't expect any News of shack up in the Star Trek camp just yet.
But with Shari Redstone being on record that she hates what JJ and Kurtzman have done/ doing to Trek, expect some in the next year. Shari was the majority shareholder for both companies before the merger and with the merger she keeps that title.
She hold Star Trek as the crown jewels in her portfolio, so she will be wanting to make Trek great again.
So anything that is not in front of the camera or close to going in front of the camera will most likely be binned as this has come from Kurtzman and co.

Depending on what Kurtzman deal is with CBS, I can see Shari courting someone that is proven in TV production and know what Trek should be, (Does not need to be a fan) and bring them on to replace Kurtzman.
(It is also rumoured that Kurtzman has no been pulled of Trek and has only been kept in place as a figure head. IE talking to the press. It would also explain why every interview he has done since the summer has given us only information that we know before **his five year plan**, with the expect of stuff that was already in production.)

I can't see Brannon Braga being brought back or Rick Berman pulled out of retirement to come back.
Ronald D Moore has his deal with Apple. (For All Mankind) So if she was to go after someone that has worked on Trek in the past to take control the only person I can see is Ira Steven Behr.

In all fairness, the Argo wasn't a bad idea. The thought that they can take a shuttle down to a planet and then have a second vehicle to launch from it to explore, rather than walk everywhere, is a good one. The two problems that existed for the Argo were the fact that we've never really seen anything like it on Star Trek before, making it kind of an out of left field idea, and Picard driving it recklessly and grinning like an idiot while doing it. That last part was 100% real, as Stewart loves that stuff, and insisted on driving it. I'd be more prone to use him directing the episode "A Fistful of Datas" as a reason to not care for his creative decisions than the Argo. :P

Though, seriously, you guys complained about almost every creative decision when it came to Discovery. What do you really think Stewart can bring to the table that will make things worse for you?

I like the idea of Argo and make sense to cover long distances.
But the use of it in the film was badly done. That is the issue I had with it and jumping off the cliff into the shuttle was something that really should not be in trek.
As Stewart grinning like an idiot did not both me, hell if I was in his position I would have done the same thing.

You can't blame A fistful of Data, there was a lot he wanted to do with that he could not, as it did not match the style and tone of the show.

I am interested to know what he bring to Picard, but given who behind the scenes I don't have a lot of hope and what I am hear is not to good.

There have been no good creative decision with what we got of Discovery. Spock Has a learning difficulty. Really!!


As for the Picard show I live in hope that it will be good, just over a month until we find out.

A Fistful of Datas is a bad episode. It should never have been written, approved or produced. I think Stewart's direction didn't hurt or help it any, as creative decisions on a TV show reside with the executive producer. From what I understand, once Jonathan Frakes directed an episode, many of the principle actors wanted to give it a shot. He directed five episodes total, Preemptive Strike is my favorite of the episodes he directed.

Yeah he was asking to direct from the 1st day on set.
Berman kept saying no but Frakes kept asking. Berman got feed up with him and said if he shadow some directors and others and did so many hours he would consider it. (Berman did not think Frakes would go though with it) From that point Frakes was on set nearly every day, he was shadowing directors sitting in with Editor and a few others.
After a year he had learnt more than if he had gone off to a proper directing school.

He went back to Berman and said I have done everything you have asked can I now direct an episode. Given the amount of time Frakes had spent learning to be a director and not being paid for it. Berman caved and gave him The Offspring to Direct. It turned out to be one of the most popular episodes of the season.
The other cast members saw this and wanted a go, so Berman started the "Star Trek School for Director's"
Cast for DS9 and Voyager all had the option to do this and have a go at directing an episode.

Unfortunely for the Cast of Enterprise the School was closed. I think Scott Bakula was the first to ask from this cast and was turned down.
I don't know why the school was closed down as many who have gone though it have gone on be to successful directors.
I suspect that it was Les Moonves who closed it down when Bakula asked. Moonves hated Bakula, and told Berman he would have to fire him so he would not return for a 5th season. (this was towards the end of the third season Bakula was contracted for the 4th.) Berman stuck up for Bakula and told Moonves he was not going to do it.

With Berman telling Moonves no it is rumoured this is one of the primary reasons Enterprise was cancelled. (yes I know it rating was not great, but it did have far better rating than some more expensive shows that CBS had renewed at the time.)

It worked out great for Frakes, he even got to direct two of the feature films. Of course, he also directed some DS9, Voyager and even Discovery, The Orville and Picard. LeVar Burton also went on to direct not only some TNG episodes, but also DS9, Voyager and Enterprise. And, from Voyager, Roxanne Dawson has had a good career behind the camera. Les Moonves is a colossal prick, so that doesn't surprise me that he did that to Bakula. Still, sometimes it works out better to let people try stuff. Sometimes, people direct a few episodes of a show or two and are content (Patrick Stewart) while others find that true career behind the camera (Ron Howard.) Either way, some people are happy just having the chance to try expanding their horizons.

It is with great Sadness that I must announce that René Auberjonois has passed away on December 8 at the age of 79.
René Auberjonois is best know as playing Odo in Star Trek Deep Space Nine, though he has had a long career in film and TV.
Odo was not his first role in Trek, his first encounter with Trek is in the Directors cut of Star Trek :VI The Undiscovered Country, as the villainess Colonel West.
He would also return to Trek for the Enterprise episode Oasis as Ezral.

Auberjonois had been fighting lung cancer for some time.
My thoughts and prayers go out to his friends and family.

That's a shame about René Auberjonois. A friend at work told me about his passing.

Robert Walker Jr. also passed away on December 5th at the age of 79. He was known for a doing lot of movies and TV guest appearances in the '60s and '70s. A couple of the things he's most known for are the movie "Easy Rider," and a memorable guest appearance as Charlie Evans in the 1966 Star Trek episode "Charlie X." Personally, I also remember him from the 1967 John Wayne and Kirk Douglas film "The War Wagon." I haven't found any details of his death.

Eerily coincidentally, "Charlie X" is an episode where D.C. Fontana wrote the teleplay.

And, I have to say, that's too many Star Trek people passing in one week.

Yes, that was a terrible week.  I have dreaded the passing of more Star Trek Alumni.

When it was announced Star Trek: Picard had no named showrunner. This can only mean that Alex Kurtzman was running the show.
Before Picard was to go in front of the camera news came out that films had been delayed. The reason for this has never been made public, but the rumour mill stated that there was a disagreement between Kurtzman and CBS. Or more specifically CBS Mechanise Partners and the direction and look Kurtzman wanted to take Picard.

Changes where made and Picard started production but the CBS Mechanise Partners, where still unwilling to pick up the licence for this show. (This is why we still have not seen any mechanise for this show.)
Shortly after going into producing it was announced that Michael Chabon had been made Showrunner.
Again never stated publicly but the rumour mill came out to say that CBS had pulled Kurtzman from Picard and promoted him. This mean that he would be just the mouth peace of Star Trek. In another word he would appear to be still in charge and do all the interviews etc, but behind the scene he has no creative control. The only control he would have would come though his production company Secret Hideout which is currently making STD, Short Treks and Picard.

Since Chabon been named has showrunner rumours have come out that Production on the show has not gone smoothly and there have been lots of rewrite and re-shoots. (more than the standard Pick ups.)
Now even before Picard airs next month, it has been announced that Chabon has stepped down as Showrunner and will not be returning for a Second Season. He is leaving Star Trek to be the showrunner on a new CBS show based on his book The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay.
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/star-trek-picard/284909/star-trek-picard-season-2-michael-chabon-to-step-down-as-showrunner

Make what you want of that, but I read that as the rumours being true that Picard is a hot mess. Why would Chabon be doing a multi year deal for a new CBS if everything is going well on Picard?

All sounds about like what I've come to expect from these "show runners" ... unfortunately.

As I said over on SFM, there could be positive reasons for him leaving the show and moving on to another. It could be more money, it could be that the Picard deal was just his foot in the door, we'll probably never really know. But, yeah, the showrunners do seem to drop like flies. Anyone remember when the same people ran the shows for years? Things were more consistent then.

Well I found out the show Chabon has left Trek for.
Also has Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman involved, Even though I have no idea what the book was about.
With those two involved it not going to be good.

Also If Kurtzman is running Trek, he should not have any time to start working on something different.
This just throws more fuel onto Rumours that he has been removed from Trek and is only there as a spokes person.

Well it did not take long, but it looks like Tatantino will not be making a Star Trek film after all.

Quote from: MetroQuentin Tarantino might not make that Star Trek movie after all. Earlier this year, the star revealed how he wanted to work on an R-rated film for the franchise, but it seems he's now having second thoughts. When chatting to Consequence of Sound about the project, the 56-year-old revealed how he might back out after the success of his latest hit, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood. 'I think I'm steering away from Star Trek,' he told the publication: 'But I haven't had an official conversation with those guys yet.' The acclaimed director added: 'In a strange way, it seems like this movie, Hollywood, would be my last. So, I've kind of taken the pressure off myself to make that last big voilà kind of statement.

You can read the rest of the article here.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/17/quentin-tarantino-second-thoughts-making-star-trek-movie-11920790/

Yeah, I heard about that the other day. I think it's for the best. I don't think he's right for Star Trek, nor is it right for him. He'd either have to follow the rules of the Star Trek universe, which would limit him, or completely ignore them and do his own thing, making it not good Star Trek. I think it's best he does his tenth film in his own universe, rather than tackling a previously established one.

Yeah its for the best.

I remember seeing an interview with Tarantino. He said that he was talking to JJ about doing this Trek film.
He goes JJ "I don't get your Trek films, I don't get the Alt timeline and why everything is so Fing up!
What the Fing story your trying to tell here. I don't even know where to go if I do it."
JJ replies "I don't have a Fing clue what those films are about. Just do what you want to do. If you want it in the original timeline then do it in the original timeline. You want it R rated then make it R rated. Just do your own thing and just ignore my films!"

Just goes to show that JJ does not give F about what he working on. He only cares about what power it will bring him in Hollywood and how much money he will earn.
With what I am seeing on his latest film it another slap in the face of the Star Wars fandom. All the leaks have turned out to be true. If that is the case, I think this film will reach just below the billion mark. It might even just get over it, but in Disney eyes that going to be a flop. I wonder if WB are regretting the 1/2 billion deal they made with him.
I guess time will only tell.

The problem with Star Trek and Star Wars is that they're such established universes that there are fans of both franchises who think there's one formula to them that is "right," and everything else is wrong. However, then there's the camp who thinks the same thing over and over again is boring. So, with Star Wars, Episode 7 was a lot like the original film. In fact, it was so much like it that the camp who doesn't want the same thing over and over bitched constantly that it was just like the original film. So, with Episode 8, they went completely different. Then the ones who think there's one formula bitched because the filmmakers dared to show them something different, and it wasn't what they wanted to see. What's worse, there are many fans who have their own mental story on how things should go and they'll bitch constantly when the things presented by the filmmakers don't match what's in their head.

And, Star Trek fans are basically the same way. There are the TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Ent, etc. (or some combination of the older series) fans who think anything newer and different is blasphemy. There are the newer show fans who think the older shows are boring and stupid. And, there are lots of lots of fans who have a story set in their minds as to how it should go and will bitch and moan when what is presented doesn't match what's in their mind.

So, basically, you can't please everyone all the time. And, to be honest, bitching about it on the internet doesn't solve anything. With mixed signals from fans, Hollywood probably pays way less attention to that stuff than people think. But, they always pay attention to money, and that's the only real way to hurt them.

People will bitch about the Star Wars films and will still go see them, so they make money. The Last Jedi made $1.33 billion globally. That's all Disney cares about. People continue to bitch about that movie (I've seen comments as recently as yesterday) but it made massive bank, so Disney is happy. They don't care if people bitch, as long as it makes money. The only way to make them see that you don't like it is to not go and see it. If enough people don't go see it and it doesn't make money, then they'll change course. Solo performed abysmally, so all of the other anthology films got halted. The Boba Fett film became The Mandalorian. The Mandalorian is f***ing awesome, easily the best Star Wars Lucasfilm has produced since the Disney buyout. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend signing up for a free trial of Disney+ and checking it out. With Star Trek, people didn't go see Star Trek Beyond due to not liking Into Darkness. Beyond performed poorly, that's why they haven't made a fourth film in that continuity yet. People bitching about it didn't make a bit of difference, poor box office gross did that. I guarantee you a lot of those people who bitched about The Last Jedi, and even the ones who skipped Solo to show Lucasfilm/Disney that they didn't like it, (even though that told them nothing about The Last Jedi) will still go to see The Rise of Skywalker. They'll watch it just to bitch about it, and the film will make money. Disney will still be happy.

If you don't like what they're doing with Star Trek, don't watch Picard. Don't stream it anywhere. People trying it just to bitch about it tells them nothing. As long as people are watching it, it will continue getting made. If people refuse to watch it, advertisers will see that and refuse to fund the show. That's the only way to hurt these companies, in their bank accounts, and that's the only thing they understand.

Anyway, sorry for the ranting post, but this type of shit really irks me. People bitch about this stuff but still watch it so they can bitch about it some more. That doesn't help the situation any. I guarantee you Hollywood gives YouTube, Facebook and Twitter rants way less attention than people think they do.

Chris your fine to step on that soap box and rant.
Your right Hollywood only care about the quick buck now and don't think long term.

I have not doubt that Rise of Skywalker will make money. Will it make reach the billion mark only time will tell.
With "Rise" Wars Fan that have hate what Disney done to that franchise, will go and see it. Just to see if it really is as bad as people are saying. (Hell I did that with TLJ. gouges visuals but shitty story.) But they won't go back and see it again. That is how the original trilogy, Prequel Trilogy and TFA made so much. Repeat viewings.
The other thing with the amount that TFA made was that it was the first Wars film in 11 years. It was a major event like Avengers Infinity War, so people that don't normal watch this type of film went.

The Biggest problem that fans have is not doing something different. it the fact that those that are now running the Franchises don't care about what has happened in the past and don't understand the franchise they are running.
They crap all over the history and cannon of the Franchise and write really bad stories.

Disney dumped the EU and bin Lucas outline for the sequel trilogy. Instead of Mining the EU for idea for their new trilogy they just rehashed ANH but had no outline for the next two following films. So in TLJ Johnson did his own thing and tired up the thread JJ left hanging. This left nothing for Colin Trevorrow to work with and he got into argument with KK, which lead to him being fired. They could not find anyone to take on the film so went back to JJ close it out.

JJ did not have to direct all the films, but he or KK should have overseen it all making sure that there was a story that went from A to B to C. This did not happen.


The Fandom Menace was started to call out this BS, and get those in charge to head back down the right path of respecting what has come before and tell well written stories.

If you got the TNG Bluray, watch the documentary on Season 1 Desk 6. This about the creation of TNG.
The one thing that keep getting repeated in it, was what can we do that different but respect what has come before.
That is something that not happening now. It more off what can we do that is Cool and to hell what has come before.

Here's my thing: It's only a movie. At the end of the day, who f***ing cares? I hated Star Trek Into Darkness. But, I didn't go on long rants about it, I didn't take any opportunity to mention how badly the f***ed up the franchise with it. I watched it once, and I moved on. I mean, I occasionally tell people I didn't like it, but that's mostly people who don't know I didn't like it. I never felt it ruined my life or anything. I hated it so much that I almost didn't go see Star Trek Beyond, and wouldn't have if Simon Pegg hadn't written it. And, I really like that one.

As for The Rise of Skywalker, I've intentionally been avoiding seeing much of anything about that since the trailers a few months ago. I'm going to go see it Tuesday, and I will formulate my own opinion about how it is. I do know it currently holds a 57% "fresh" rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I don't really care about audience ratings, as people are going to harp on it no matter what. They'll go into it expecting to hate it and they will hate it. But, no matter what, the Skywalker saga is going to end. The problem is where it won't end the way people expect it to. But, such is life.

And, honestly, if what George Lucas claims he wanted to do for the sequel trilogy is what they dumped, then good riddance. Though, nobody knows if that "Whills" thing is what he proposed, but he claims that's what he wanted to do. If midi-chlorians pissed people off so much, that would have really enraged fans.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Star Trek when Picard pisses people off. Because, you know it will. It's not even out yet and people are already saying it's bad, without even seeing it.

I keep saying if they really want to do Star Trek that people will like, they need to get some of those fan film people involved, possibly even running the whole thing. Not that giant douchebag Alec Peters, but someone like James Cawley or Vic Mignogna. But, CBS isn't that smart, at least not so far.

Rumour have started to leak out that Noah Hawley's Star Trek Film and 4th in the Kelvin Timeline is dead in space and no longer happening.
Reason being Investors have pulled out of the project.

Simon Pegg also stated recently that he did not know that Hawley was working on the 14th Star Trek film.
But did know that he was writing a script for a Star Trek project that had nothing to do with the cast from the Kelvin films.

If this rumour turn out to be true it will not come as a surprise. Bad Robot contact with Paramount came to an end halfway though last year. Bad Robot still have the option to make Trek films but they need to find the investment before Paramount will green light it.
If Paramount was to do this it would reactivate the deal Bad Robot had with them for Trek.

The announcement of Noah Hawley's was mostly coming out of Bad Robot. This was highly likely a last ditch effort by Bad Robot to keep their claws into Trek.

This is something that is no longer in Paramount interest, given that Paramount parent company has re-merged with it way would child CBS. This means that the split licencing for Star Trek is no longer in effect and all under one roof once again.
The Bad Robot Deal is no longer beneficial to Paramount or CBS.

**heavy sigh**

So, the attached image is from EAS, it's a capture from the latest Short Treks, "Children of Mars." I haven't seen the episode, but it's apparently a Picard prequel set around the year 2380. yet, we have what appear to be three ships from Discovery in a dock, possibly four. (the thing to the back right obscured by the dock appears to be another ship)

So, I have a lot of issues with this image. Firstly, it's supposed to take place post TNG, yet the ships are clearly just Discovery ships. Seriously, with the money being thrown into this series, they couldn't make some new ships?! Another issue I have is the dock itself. It's all dark and crappy looking. The material looks like the same one they used on the D7. Also, since when do they put multiple ships inside a single dock? The original intention of that sort of dock was that it was supposed to be akin to a scaffolding that's used when working on buildings. Those are built in place and conform to the building. That's why all docks we've seen so far have been just slightly larger than the ships inside. They're supposed to be modular and can be built around the ship being constructed. The whole thing is just stupid. If they think going cheap and reusing old models for Picard is a way to bring back fans, they're wrong. Apparently, the issue with the K't'inga on Enterprise enraging fans has taught them nothing.

We still don't have the second batch of short Treks in the UK yet. Most likely won't get them until season 3 of Discovery drops, and Netflix will most likely shove them with the trailers like they did with the first batch. If you did not know where to look you would not find them as they don't show up on search's.


I was watching Robert Mayer Burnett show, the other day (Episode 315)
He lost his shit over this, but not just this Short Trek. But the way Trek has been handled since JJ and Kurtzman have been running things. Every single point RMB made was spot on.

I don't always agree with RMB has to say, but I listen to him and he has a better understanding of how the film and TV industry works.

It just goes to show that the people running Trek have no Frecking idea what they are doing and those two interviews with Sir Patrick Stewart did not give me a lot of hope for this. Because of Brexit and Trump they are taking the show and Trek in a direction it should not go in. The Federation becomes isolationist. How does that work?
Does Stewart even know why the British people voted to leave the EU? It sure  has hell was not to be cut overslef off from the rest of Europe.
People did it for different reason. Me Personally Voted for it, because I don't want laws to be made by people I did not vote into power. If the people of Europe does not vote for the ruler over the entire of Europe. Then it is not a Democracy. Anyway there more to it than just that, but as this not a plate foram for political speech I will leave it there.

The Federation is a union of nearly 300 different races by post TNG, that work together to make thing better and work in a Democracy.

All of a Sudden they decided to close the boarder stop exploring and isolate themselves from the rest of the Galaxy?
That is not Star Trek. Sure you can do a story about it but make it an alien race going though it and not the Federation. It goes agents every ideal that Star Trek was based on.

In other news it has been announced that Kurtzman is working on Clarice Starling (The Silence of the Lambs) TV show along with other producers from Star Trek.
He will be also working on Michael Chabon TV show for Showtime.

I don't know about you, but where does he find the time to do all of this as well as work on Trek?
You never saw Berman working on anything other than Trek when he was running the show. Why because it took up all of his time.

So this has lead me to believe that the rumours that came out last year that he has been fired it partly true.
I think he has had all creative power removed and is now only brought out to do interviews and make announcements.
Also with the remerge of Viacom and CBS, things are being change in both former companies due to this.
It is well know that Sheri Redstone hates everything that has happened to Trek since JJ and Kurtzman has taken over. As she is the majority share holder in the company, She is making changes with how Trek is run. AKA pulling Kurtzman and co completely off it.

We won't see the effects of these changes for a while though.
As for what we are getting now, this is the left over from Kurtzman still had creative control.
The Short Trek where already in production, along with Lower Decks (Which they could still correct has there is still no air date) and Discovery Season 3. They tried to make Picard less Kurtzman and we won't know the effect of it that worked until next week. But rumour has it that it did not work and it was a major reason why Chabon was not asked back for Season 2. If they thought he did a good Job CBS would never have offered him his new Show, based on his book.
In another words he was a decent showrunner but not good enough to stay on Picard.

The Federation are isolationists in this timeline? WTF? Yeah, that's not going to sit well with anyone. The Federation's ideals in past Star Trek were the exact opposite of isolationist. Also, it existed in a world full of things like the Cold War and various other conflicts going on. The political views of the Federation never wavered in relation to real world events. If they did, it would have been a mess. It existed as a bright future, a time when the human race had risen above such petty nonsense.

You're right, these people have no f***ing idea what they're doing.

Anything that's in production right now is the brainchild of Kurtzman and his retarded team. The only way it's going to get better is if he's fired outright and they completely jettison any of his diseased ideas and start over. That includes getting rid of Picard.

I would really like to take a shot at running a single Star Trek - based program.  I'd love to create something that the old hardcore fans would want to see.

I guess time will tell with the new Picard show.  I don't wish it bad luck, I just hope it is better than I've been hearing.

I recently heard a new Rumour, that when Michael Chabon was brought on as showrunner halfway though shooting of Picard. (around the time it is rumoured that Kurtzman has all creative power pulled.) He was tasked with cleaning up the mess that Kurtzman had made with Picard.

As Discovery and Picard are made under the same licence as the JJ films so have to be 25% different. If they want to use anything from classic Trek (1963 to 2005, that in including The Cage) they have to buy a licence for it form CBS. Remember Current Star Trek is not an in house production by CBS, it actually made by Secret Hideout.
This meant that if wanted to use anything from the TNG era, they would have to buy a licence for it. This is what Chabon did to bring Picard Closer in look to a post TNG era, and it cost Secret Hideout a fortune and took Picard well over budget. This Pissed Kurtzman off big time!

As Kurtzman owns Secret Hideout he still had power, he let Chabon finish filming Picard, then fired him.
Kurtzman then started to pull off stuff Chabon had added form the TNG era, so Secret Hideout does not have to pay for them. (This is also why we see Discovery era ships in spacedock in the shot "Children of Mars." )

What this basically means is that Kurtzman was pulled of Picard, because what he was doing was not what CBS wanted and they put Chabon in place to fix it. Then Kurtzman pulled Chabon off it though his production company and changed everything back to the way he wanted it.


Kurtzman is no longer listening to anyone and doing his own thing. This has pissed of everyone around him including ViacomCBS board. The leftover from Moonves days that had been protecting Kurtzman have all been fired and he longer has any bridge with ViacomCBS. Sheri Redstone is looking at Kurtzman contact so she can get ride of him, if not she going to wait him out.


ViacomCBS did not announce season 2 of Picard that came out of the Secret Hideout camp. But they will be watching how Picard does, when it realised. If it does well then it will get a second season, but if not it gone. Season 3 of Discovery is rumoured to be it last. All live action shows will be stopped and if Redstone can't get rid of Kurtzman she just going sit there and wait for Kurtzman five year deal to be over and not renew it. (I think that only has two years left on it.)

As for how Picard does, ViacomCBS will not be just looking at the audience numbers but also fan reaction.
They know it will have big numbers to start of, as Sir Stewart is back and this will bring people in.
But if there is a major fan Backlash they are not going to be happy, but they are expecting it.

Sorry, but Kurtzman being out of control and doing whatever he wants with the show sounds like bad fiction to me. I'm fairly certain that's not how it works. If he's really acting like that, CBS can just pull the plug on the whole thing. They have control over what is released on their streaming platform. Studios and networks have pulled the plug on shows before, so that they were never aired despite episodes being made. Also, if CBS appointed Chabon as show runner, how could Kurtzman gotten rid of him? He works for CBS, not Kurtzman.

Also, both Dicsovery and Picard are CBS productions. Lots of shows are done by other companies, but are still done for and by a particular studio/company. Hell, the original Star Trek was produced at Desilu but the property was still owned by CBS/Viacom/Paramount. It was filmed on the Paramount lot and owned as a whole by the company. Likewise, the newer shows are filmed at locations owned by CBS and CBS owns it all. They own Star Trek and don't have to purchase licenses to make Star Trek shows. They can use whatever elements of Star Trek the want to. The only reason Paramount had to purchase a license was due to the dumb split of the company, and CBS getting Star Trek in the divorce. The 2009-onward movies have absolutely nothing to do with the newer shows, they don't even take place in the same Star Trek universe. They were produced by completely different companies.

I don't know where that BS 25% rule came from. Probably someone involved in the production wanting to claim more creative license. Possibly even Kurtzman himself. However, it's not due to anyone having to purchase a license.

Okay, this all comes down to the streaming wars. Yes CBS can pull Picard, Discovery etc if Kurtzman is running around doing his own thing. But they won't for two simple reasons.
1. With the exception of old shows, CBS has nothing to replace them with on the streaming service.
2. If they where to pull them, it will not look good to Shareholder and investors. (They have spent millions on these shows.) Remember we a still early into the Streaming wars, CBSAA needs that investment to keep it going. (Though having a show like Discovery has not helped them.) So if the shows where pulled, investors will not keep putting money into it and shareholder will want to know why such a huge amount was wasted.

Actually Discovery and Picard are not CBS productions, most shows these days are not made by the company that own the rights. Discovery and Picard are made by Secret Hideout under licence.
Think of it this way. Spider-Man is owned by Marvel Disney but Sony have bought the rights (licence) to make Spider-Man films. This is why you see the Marvel logo at the start of Spider-Man films, with the exception of the last two Spider-Man films Marvel had very little to do with them.

As for Filming location and I not sure about Discovery as that is filmed in Toronto. Even if they are being filmed on a CBS Studio, it still needs to be payed for. Secret Hideout offices are not on the CBS or Paramount lot, but the set are. So they need to be paid for. Even if it was done in house it would still need to be paid for. I'll give you an example.
I Work for Fujitsu and we used Fujitsu own made PC. When we need to upgrade, replace or get more. We need to order them from the Fujitsu factory that makes them. They are not going to give them to us, as they will lose money on the PC and transport of them to Us. So my Department will use money from it budget to buy and have them transported to us.
The company is not losing any money as it just moving it around internally. But it needs to be accounted for.
It the same thing with Studio's or any business for that matter.

As for the having to buy licence and 25% different, this come to the split. When Bad Robot signed on to make Trek, CBS stated that Bad Robot films had to be 25% different from what CBS owned (This is all to do with Merchandising as Bad Robot will get the profit from their stuff.) . Bad Robot agreed to this but with the clause that CBS where unable to make any TV shows for ten years once Bad Robot has put out it film, it also included the option to make their own Star Trek Shows. That clause Started in 2009 with the realise of Trek 09.
In 2016 CBS wanted to get into the streaming game and look at what they could use to lunch it. Star Trek was the only property they owned that would work. Bryan Fuller was hired and set to work to make a show that lunch the new Streaming service. Kurtzman who was part of the Bad Robot deal heard what CBS was doing and went to them informed them they are breach of Contract. As JJ was busy with Star Wars he gave the TV rights to Kurtzman's Secret Hideout and Kurtzman started to work with Fuller. They did not get on and what Fuller envision was being changed so he left.

This mean all current Star Trek shows are being made under the Bad Robot Licence and needs to be 25% different.
If they want to use anything From Pre 2005 Trek, Secret Hideout and not CBS needs to buy a licence to use it.

Ever since Kurtzman has been in control of Trek, everything has been late and over budget. Discovery was meant to lunch CBSAA, but it came to it a year late.

I still don't see why CBS would need to issue a license to have anyone make a show of their property for them. But, whatever, I don't really know anything about that shit or really care to be honest.

Whatever is happening behind the scenes, Picard is due out in less than a week. It's going to be a hit or not. Either way, it will determine what CBS decides to do beyond it. Honestly, part of me wants it to be good, but part of me doesn't. If it's not good and doesn't do well, then you can kiss anything else Star Trek produced by Kurtzman goodbye. Like you said, they have announced Discovery season 3, so we know that's happening, but not a second season of Picard. That will only happen of season 1 does well. If Kurtzman is really doing what you say he's doing, then he's digging his own career grave. Good riddance.

So, we'll see. As always, I'll reserve judgment until I see the show.

We all want Picard to be good.
But for a lot of people myself included, that Hope is fading fast. With the quality of Chabon two Short Treks being so bad. The whole "Children of Mars" Short Trek being a freaking joke.

Then you got the same people that work on Discovery working on this. (I know some people liked Discovery but I found it to be bad Sci-fi and worst Star Trek.)
But saying that, I will give it a chance, just my expectation for it are so low I can feel the heat from hell coming up. ;)

It was recently announced that Picard will be getting a second season. This was not Surprising given all streaming show seem to get a second season before the first has aired.
But your right ViacomCBS will be looking to see how Picard does.

Only 4 days for you lot in North America to wait and Five for the rest of us. (I feel sorry for those that live in Australia and New Zealand. They got to wait until Saturday to see it.)

Four days if we want to sign up for BS All Access. ::) I don't know why we can't have it on normal streaming services, like Prime or Netflix. (yes, I know they screwed up with Netflix, not my point)

I like Discovery, but that was at least the Starfleet out there doing its thing. This new show with Picard kind of putting together a non Starfleet crew, I just don't know. I mean, we loved Picard as the captain of the Enterprise, out there doing his thing. If it was him being an admiral or ambassador or something, it could be cool. But, I just don't know. But, we'll see. I have a three day weekend coming up and I get paid Thursday, so I guess I can at least try a month of BS All Access.

I keep hear that Picard will be a rip-off of Firefly, with the rag-tag crew.
To be honest it does look like that, but we won't know until it airs.

Someone told me, if you have Netflix account and a VPN and set the VPN for a different country and then access Netflix you can get the Netflix catalogue for that country. It not stealing as your already paying for the service just access it from another country.
Don't know if that works or not. But if it does and you have a prime account, and you can always try it that way and not have to pay CBS to get access.

But then again, someone might have seen that loop hole and close it and the account diverts back to country that it is registered with.
Does not hurt to try thought.

I have now seen the Frist episode of Picard.
you guys know I am not a fan of Kurtzman or the Star Trek he has given us since 09.
Did I hate the episode no, did I love it no. It was just okay. Something bugged me and there is a WTF McGuffin story point.

I am going to write up a review that will have spoiler in the second half and post it to my Blog and leave a link here to it.

I haven't summoned up the will to care enough to sign back up for BS All Access and watch it.

Yeah, I'll wait until the season is almost over, then on the last week or so, I'll sign up for a trial.

Best way for it.

Here is my review for those that are interested.
https://freakart89.wordpress.com/2020/01/24/star-trek-picard-episode-1-remembrance-reivew/

I watched it and quite enjoyed it. I'm not going to sit here and analyze it or anything, but I'm looking forward to the next episode. I'm sure there are things (ideas) that will be expanded upon and explained as the season goes on.

Great!

For those of you that don't have CBSAA or Amazon Prime.
The first episode of Picard is now available on CBSAA youtube channel.
It will stay up until the 5th of Feb. With it being on CBSAA it is region locked, so those that don't have Amazon Prime and want to watch it, you will need a VPN to access it.

Here is my review for Episode 2 of Picard.

https://freakart89.wordpress.com/2020/01/31/star-trek-picard-episode-2-maps-and-legends-reivew/

Oh wow!  Thanks for the tip!

I have also heard a new rumour in regards to Trek as a whole. I am looking for another source to confirm or a different source that has been pretty spot on with Rumours to also state it before I post it here.


As for future Trek Movies, I have heard form multiple places that they are currently dead in the water and nothing is going to happen on that front for a few years. Apparently even though the Bad Robot deal with Paramount has ended, they still get first chose on making a Trek film. However that part of the deal has six to eight months left on it. So everything that they are putting forward to Paramount for a new Trek film even if it has financing backing is being turned down. It not even Paramount that is turned it down, but Sheri Redstone herself.
Once Bad Robot no longer has first option and no longer have anything to do with Trek. We could see the next Trek movie being made with it possible being done in house like it use to be.
This is all rumour, but given what we are seeing the signs point to it being partly true.

In my opinion, they need to chill with the movies for now and keep plugging away with the TV shows. Since they seem to barely be able to fit those in the budget, I don't think it would be a good idea to try financing a movie right now. Picard seems to be doing well so far, (91%/73% on Rotten Tomatoes and 8.5/10 on IMDb) so they should just keep building on that.

And, no, I don't want to discuss the direction they're going with the current TV shows. There's a reason I dropped out of that conversation at SFM.

Don't Trust Rotten Tomato scores. The Critics always seem to be opersite from the General Public.
Stuff they love the general audience hate and stuff the they love the general audience hates. This has been the trend for the few years or so.

Also Rotten Tomato's like to delete the public score if it coming up rotten. They been doing that with this season Doctor Who. That was at 16% and they deleted a bunch of votes and it shot up to 96%, then dropped back down 0% in a few hours.
They seem to do this each week. The Majority of people watching current Dr. Who hate it. There is noting Rotten Tomato's change that fact.


As for Trek on TV going over budget, Thats Kurtzman for just look at everything he has worked on. It gone over budget.
The only think that has not is stuff he is not a producer on or it your typical Cop Show that are unexpansive to make.

I've seen all the episodes of Picard thus far, and it's not too bad.  It's certainly not Star Trek: The Next Generation, but then I can watch the original seven seasons of that.  It's ... interesting.  At least now Picard is in space.  I think he's trying to right a wrong before he dies.  Just a guess.

Quote from: Freak on Feb 17, 2020, 02:24 pmDon't Trust Rotten Tomato scores. The Critics always seem to be opersite from the General Public.
Stuff they love the general audience hate and stuff the they love the general audience hates. This has been the trend for the few years or so.

Also Rotten Tomato's like to delete the public score if it coming up rotten. They been doing that with this season Doctor Who. That was at 16% and they deleted a bunch of votes and it shot up to 96%, then dropped back down 0% in a few hours.
They seem to do this each week. The Majority of people watching current Dr. Who hate it. There is noting Rotten Tomato's change that fact.

That's why I mentioned IMDb also. Though, again, the scores can be faked there too. People have been known to sign up for accounts just to raise or lower a score on something because they have no lives. I take scores from either of those sites with a huge grain of salt. (or just don't look at them)

However, I still say Star Trek is better on the small screen. The type of stories they like to tell in ST fit best in the television medium, in my opinion.

Quote from: scifidude79 on Feb 18, 2020, 07:53 amHowever, I still say Star Trek is better on the small screen. The type of stories they like to tell in ST fit best in the television medium, in my opinion.

I totally agree with you on that.
Not sure on the whole serialised storytelling Trek has taken with STD and Picard. I know that the norm for TV show these days. But if your going to do that, you need to have the season planned out before filming. Start, Middle and End of said story.
The Expanse and (first five seasons) Game of Thrones dose this very well, They know how to start and finish each season.
But then it was based on Novels and had the writers of said Novels helping the show writers when adapting the Novels for TV.

With Trek I get the feeling they know where they want to start but don't have a clue how to finish the story which is why episodes are a hot mess. (the Jury is still out on Picard.) But this was very obvious with the Season 2 of STD, They started one story then went of in a completely different direction with another story only to realises they need to bring both stories together to get it finished.

Maybe they should go back and do what DS9 did, self contained episodes as the main story and the B story being a season wide story arc that sometime becomes the main story. Of course they had 26 episode back then and current Trek has between 10 and 13.

I like a show with a season long plot, but I still like an episodic format. You can do both, with occasional mentions/updates on the big plot. It's been done before. But, as you said, it takes good planning.

You can do both in a show, but it takes a certain kind of writer or a unique group of writers.  DSN was a direct ripoff of Babylon 5, but Joe Straczynski was great at long, convoluted plots and was not that great at standalone episodes.  Don't get me wrong, his season-spanning stories were GREAT!

Yeah your right about JMS. Even before he started pitching B5, he had a rough plan for it, a Start middle and a end.
Right from the off he know it was going to be five seasons long and no more than that.
He also outlined what each season was going to be about.

It was only once the show had been picked up did he and the writers he hired start breaking down the season into individual episode.

He did not even plan the four? TV movies that came out afterword's. That was a bonus and the first film In the Beginning Explained the Earth Membari War, which used a lot of what was seen in the show. Given how successful they where the other films where green lighted but don't really tie into the overall story of B5.

As for the spinoff, part of the reason they did not last past half a season was because JMS had not planned them out like he did with B5 and was no where near as good.

I've found it very hard to get into Babylon 5, despite a couple attempts to do just that. I think it's probably a symptom of that thing where you say it suffers on the episode level but shines on the ongoing story arc.

Funny you mention DS9, because I was actually thinking of the overall story with the Dominion, which actually starts earlier into season 2 than when they finally appear in the season finale. It's woven into various episodes and then finally comes full circle at the end of the season. They also had that plot with the Klingon war, and they managed to still have episodic stories with both of those story arcs. They also did that with the Temporal Cold War and Xindii story arcs on Enterprise. They managed to have episodic episodes mixed in, but still further the overall season (or series) story arcs. So, it can be done, but they definitely need careful planning ahead of time.

Yeah DS9 and Enterprise did this very well. But the difference between them and the current Trek shows.
Is one major factor and that's the writers. DS9 and Enterprise had some of the best writers that have gone on to even bigger an better success. But when they did this story arc, they had them planned out well in advanced before the cameras started to roll. Did thing change as the season they where writing went along. Yes it did but they where able to adapt to those changes as they had a plan.

while the writers for Discovery all came from CW type programs (Revenge etc.) and don't have any background in writing for this sort of genre. Yes some of those programs are serialised but they also had the same problems. A good premised but poor execution. This come from not planning out the season before anything is written into a script.
So by the end everything is just a hot mess of not making any scene. Revenge is a good example of this.


While Picard so far has only had Michael Chabon, Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman as writers.
Chabon is a very good writer when it come to Novels, but when it come to TV I find his work very lacking.
As for Goldman and Kurtzman, I find them to be hacks altogether. Though when Goldman is not working in the sci-fi genre he is actually very good.

I think Discovery's second season did better with the long story arc than the first one did. The first one was kind of weird. It started with the Klingons, then made a drastic switch to the mirror universe from Mirror, Mirror. Then, when that was done, it was like, "Oh yeah, we're still fighting the Klingons." I would have liked it if the Klingon plot was cleaned up more before they went to the Terran Empire, but that's not how it was done. With season 2, you could tell they were committed to that main plot for the whole season. The problem it had was that it just wasn't necessarily that great of a plot. Sure, it was interesting, but it has a lot of issues. And, I'm even a fan of the show, but I'm not one of those fans who can't see the faults in a series that I really like.

DS9 definitely had some great episodes and writing, but some of the earlier season 1 stuff was a whole lot of "meh." I think getting into stuff like the plots with the Maquis and then the Dominion really helped them. And, of course, having the Klingons on the opposite side as the Federation is never a bad thing. I think DS9 really needed the longer plots to break through the tedium of "Ooh, something came from the wormhole, what can it be?" episodes. Enterprise was kind of the opposite. I think the episodes where they're just showing early exploration are good. I didn't mind the Temporal Cold War plot, but I thought the Xindii plot kind of went on too long. I get that they were in a ratings slump and needed something to try and get viewers, but I'm not sure a season long plot with aliens that were allegedly Federation members but who we never saw in the later shows was the way to go. That's one reason I think season 4 was so good, they got away from that formula, wrapped up the Xindii and Temporal Cold War plots and got back to smaller scale stories. Sure, they had some longer plots, but they were plots that only lasted 2-3 episodes.

So, yeah, I think it just depends on the series on whether longer plots are necessary. With DS9 being stationary, I think they needed longer plots to keep it interesting, whereas the shows that follow a starship going to different worlds can always be interesting, as they can go to different worlds and see new stuff. So, you don't necessarily need season plots to keep them going, provided your episodic writing is good.

You hit the nail on the head right there Chris.

I was never a fan of the Temporal Cold War plot & Xindii plot.
But when they started to do those two to three episode stories they got it right. Those are the best episode of Enterprise.

As for the first two season of DS9 and like Captain Janeway, they really did not know what to do with the show.
Thanks god Bhur was on staff, because it was him that guide DS9 to greatness.

I saw a news article this morning saying that all Trek under Kurtzman was being rebranded as The Relaunch Timeline.
I can't find the article again to post it here. However if this is true, I guess that Discovery and Picard and Lower Decks are not part of the Canon Timeline.

I find the farther along we get with this stuff, the less I care about what is considered part of what timeline. But, I'm sure some people will find validation in that revelation, as they were saying it wasn't part of the main timeline. I expect this is also something that CBS will use to say that these shows were never part of the main timeline so that they don't have to follow anything from them moving forward past Kurtzman. Kind of like when Marvel restarted Captain America in the 1960s, and they said the real Captain America was frozen in ice at the end of WWII and the Captain America and Bucky from the late 40s and 50s were imposters. ;)

I need to get caught up on Picard episodes. I haven't watched 4 or 5 yet.

Some of the people that enjoy Discovery and what we seen of Picard so far, have said it does not fix with the original timeline. And those that hate it for all sorts of reason have said They could accept it better if they had come out and said it not part of that Timeline.
I think they may of made this announcement to get some of the fans to come back, I don't know.
We don't see the viewing figures from CBSAA, Netflix and Amazon Prime. But we can from Canada, and they are not good and dropping.

I would not count the viewing figures from E4 in the UK for Season 1 of Discovery, as that has already been shown on Netflix and most households here has it. (The viewers on E4 was just over half a million and dropped fast after the second episode.)

I like a lot of what we saw in episode 4, but there was still a lot I did not like but that was down to story writing.
As for episode 5, the only thing I will say is that it the opening made a lot of fan unhappy.

Chris after you watch it, I am curious to see what you though of it.

Chris and Eric. Have you had a chance to catch up with Picard?

I know some of you are not fan of the Nerdrotic Channel.
But he has posted a new video on the Lawsuit against CBS and Netflix.
It also shows Plagiarism or Homage with Star Trek Discovery and Picard. Of course this his option on that subject.
But you can decided weather it is Plagiarism or Homage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvE8aEb2OcY

Quote from: Freak on Mar 03, 2020, 04:31 pmChris and Eric. Have you had a chance to catch up with Picard?

I know some of you are not fan of the Nerdrotic Channel.
But he has posted a new video on the Lawsuit against CBS and Netflix.
It also shows Plagiarism or Homage with Star Trek Discovery and Picard. Of course this his option on that subject.
But you can decided weather it is Plagiarism or Homage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvE8aEb2OcY

Hello Dean,

Yeah, I'm up-to-date with Picard.  I haven't seen the Mandalorian though.  I'm a Star Trek fan first.  I'll catch up on Star Wars later.

Quote from: Freak on Mar 03, 2020, 04:31 pmChris and Eric. Have you had a chance to catch up with Picard?

No, I haven't taken the time. With 3 episodes left to drop, I may just wait for the rest of the season and then binge them. One thing you have to admire about Netflix and Amazon is that they drop a whole season at once. They understand that we want to binge stuff we like.

Quote from: Freak on Mar 03, 2020, 04:31 pmI know some of you are not fan of the Nerdrotic Channel.
But he has posted a new video on the Lawsuit against CBS and Netflix.
It also shows Plagiarism or Homage with Star Trek Discovery and Picard. Of course this his option on that subject.
But you can decided weather it is Plagiarism or Homage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvE8aEb2OcY

I probably won't watch it, but is it still that Tardigrades game? Because, we all know there's a case there, but good luck proving it in court. Companies like CBS are used to stealing ideas and no doubt have a whole legal team ready for defense with confusing half truths and outright BS.

While I do enjoy a whole season being dropped in one go on Netflix and Amazon. I don't think it a good thing for a show.
Think about it. It get dropped on a Friday (Normally) and everyone watch's it over the weekend.
For the next week people talk about it and then it fades away.

Now two thing can happen. If the show some of the best TV going, then the hype will be there when the next season comes along a year later and most of the viewer will come back. Also taking the hype into consideration, those that did not see the first season will catch up and watch the second.

The other thing will happen if the show is moderate to okay, is that by the time the next season comes on people are no longer interested or forgotten about it and won't bother watching, as the show has not been on in a year. It also less likely new viewer will come in.


For a show to stay health, it need to follow the broadcast model.
One episode realised each week. This way, people are talking about it each week. Depending on how long a season is (10 to 23 episode), people will be talking about it for 2 1/2 months to five months.
Plus the wait time is not as long, so the pervious season is still fresh in people minds.

If you want to binge it in one go, you can always waiting until it has finished airing.

I'm so old and busy that I really don't have time to waste on mediocre shows.  That's why I'm afraid with things like the JJ Abrams movies and the latest two shows (Discovery and Picard) that I may actually drop watching New Trek.  I just don't think they're very good.

Now, I do enjoy Altered Carbon on Netflix.  I think it's interesting.

Dropping a show one episode at a time is nothing more than an attempt to keep people subscribed because your streaming service has limited content. This is even true for Disney+, though less so than for CBS All Access. All Access is literally nothing more than current CBS shows, some past CBS shows and a handful of movies. It's not enough content to keep the service afloat, so they drip feed their exclusives. Though, it doesn't work. I personally subbed for a week free trial and binged Discovery season 2. I binged that and the Short Treks I hadn't seen over 2 days and CBS didn't get anything out of me except ad revenue.

People don't watch things at the same pace, so it's not like it just disappears after a season, or is quickly forgotten. I know people who binged The Boys after Amazon dropped it and they're still talking about how good it is and how they can't wait for season 2. So, if a show is good enough, dropping whole seasons at once shouldn't be a problem, people will want to come back. For me, watching single episodes of Picard is not that satisfying, when I finish one and immediately want to watch another but it's not up yet. That's why I'm letting some episodes build up. I did that with the final handful of episodes of The Mandalorian and I really enjoyed watching them back to back.

Like a said if it a good show (The Boys, Stanger Things etc) they can handle the year plus gap and the audience will come back. But then you have really good shows like The Expanse. That was originally aired on Syi-fi in the US and Netflix internally (I think Netflix has a deal with Syi-fi, as a lot of there show end up there.) For a sci-fi show it not overly expensive to make, and it got renewed after each season. However the cost of the show was too much for the viewer numbers syi-fi was getting and it was cancelled.
Luckily that show has a massive fan base that started to campaign for Netflix or Amazon to pick it up and save it.
Cas Anvar who plays Alex Kamal found out that Jeff Bezos (Owner and founder of Amazon.) was a huge fan. So Cas and the rest of the Cast found out that Jeff Bezos was the main speaker at a Science Dinner. Cas contacted organizer and had it arranged they would also do a talk about the show. Jeff missed their talk, but he was sitting on the next table to them during the dinner. All the cast member that where present signed a Expanse Comic and slipped it to Jeff, who loved the gift. He then sat down with them and chatted a little. Later in the evening just before Jeff was to go on stage and make his speech he made a phone call, when he took to the stage he announced that The Expanse had been saved by Amazon Prime.

In November Amazon who now have the rights to all of The Expanse dropped season 4. It understood the show is one of the most popular, however a week after it dropped all talk about the show dried up. Now if this had been realised weekly it would have been talked about for ten weeks.
Now I got to November for season 5. The wait is killing me.

@Eric, Love Altered Carbon just finished season 2 last night. I hope it get renewed for season 3.
While I liked Anthony Mackie as Takeshi Kovacs. I think Will Yun Lee  & Joel Kinnaman where better.

I don't think there's any right answer when it comes to interest in a show drying up on its off season. 10 weeks in the span of a 52 week year still isn't a lot of time. That's 42 weeks without the show being on. But, that's still less time than the single day drop, assuming fans binged it right away. But, that even happens with broadcast shows on TV channels. That's why they start mercilessly running commercials for shows about a month before they start. (or maybe sooner)

But, I get what you're saying for sure. The weekly thing could be better, but I just don't like waiting for new episodes. I think for next season I'll just wait until they're all up to watch them.

Not offical news out of ViamcomCBS or Secret hideout.
But I thought I would post it here instead of giving it own thread.

A Star Trek Fan in the UK has recreated the Bridge of the Enterprise-D in full loving detail.
This is not CGI, watch the video for the twist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBvF_9qCnJ8

(https://treknews.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/star-trek-lower-decks-poster.jpg)

Star Trek: Lower Decks final get an air date.
The show has been set to premiers on CBSAA on Thursday, August 6.
The show will be shown weekly on every Thursday and it is comprised of 10 episodes that are 30mins in length.


The Show will be shown in Canada on the same places that show Star Trek Picard and Discovery.

As for those of living out side of North America, there as been no news on who will be showing it. Though rumour has it both Netflix and Amazon Prime has turned it down. (I don't know what that means for Strange New World if it get made?)
It could be some time until it is seen in the Rest of the world.


As for Discovery Season 3, Still no news on when that will be Realised on CBSAA or Netflix. However I heard that Post Production is now completed and it is ready for broadcast.

Anyone a fan of the ship in the Poster?
It looks like it has the same issues that the Oberth Class has with getting into the secondary hull.
While the pylons do look thick enough for a turbolift to go down, they go straight into nacelles. Which is a big No No while they are in operation, given Trek Canon.

I like the design of the ship. It's not necessarily a secondary hull, it could just be an unmanned pod section. It looks like these crew members are going to be stationed in the lower part of the saucer, which they're referring to as the lower decks. Hardly the lower decks of the ship if that section is manned.

Quote from: Freak on Jul 02, 2020, 07:12 amNot offical news out of ViamcomCBS or Secret hideout.
But I thought I would post it here instead of giving it own thread.

A Star Trek Fan in the UK has recreated the Bridge of the Enterprise-D in full loving detail.
This is not CGI, watch the video for the twist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBvF_9qCnJ8

A few seconds into the video I called the "surprise" ... although it was obviously LOVINGLY created.  Very well done.

The ship for Lower Decks?  No, not a fan.  I'll wait to see if they deliver Star Trek-quality before I make any real judgements.